Ken Burns Tackles the Vietnam War

[Montegriffo]

There was never going to be enough oil, tin and rubber to pay for a war against a battle hardened enemy on its own ground. I just don't get why the French didn't let it go. If we could give up India and all its wealth then De Gaulle could have walked away from Indochina.

[Smitty-48]

Well, the motivations for the French and Americans actually going to a shooting war over it, was psychological/cultural in the end, the French were traumatized by the defeat of 1940 and trying to wind back the clock to before the catastrophe, and the Americans were enthralled by the idea that "American Know How" could solve any problem if you just got the "Best and Brightest" together to crunch the numbers.

The French were being insecure, the Americans were being cocky, culture is destiny, what else is new?

[Montegriffo]

Well thank fuck Britain had the sense to stay out of it.
Still licking our wounds from the Suez crisis and our fall as a world power.

[Smitty-48]

Well thank fuck Britain had the sense to stay out of it.
Still licking our wounds from the Suez crisis and our fall as a world power.

The British had their own Vietnam's, but thanks to the SAS, they won them, Malaya, Aden, Dhofar, and Ulster. Qui ose; gagne.

[Montegriffo]

Well thank fuck Britain had the sense to stay out of it.
Still licking our wounds from the Suez crisis and our fall as a world power.

The British had their own Vietnam's, but thanks to the SAS, they won them, Malaya, Aden, Dhofar, and Ulster. Qui ose; gagne.

My father got his active service medal in Malaya.

[K@th]

Seems America got exactly what it didn't want.....

We're good at that. It's one of our best skills.

@Smitty - appreciate your thoughts. That's the problem with documentaries. You can't ask questions. Will keep watching, though.

[Smitty-48]

Well thank fuck Britain had the sense to stay out of it.
Still licking our wounds from the Suez crisis and our fall as a world power.

The British had their own Vietnam's, but thanks to the SAS, they won them, Malaya, Aden, Dhofar, and Ulster. Qui ose; gagne.

My father got his active service medal in Malaya.

The British had a very successful model, first off, less is more, Special Air Service; stand by, stand by, go-go-go, and, transfer the colonial holdings to local control, which was still onside and willing to do business with the Crown while not willing to do business with the Soviets, and lastly, anything which was not conducive to this model; just walk away.

[Montegriffo]

The British had their own Vietnam's, but thanks to the SAS, they won them, Malaya, Aden, Dhofar, and Ulster. Qui ose; gagne.

My father got his active service medal in Malaya.

The British had a very successful model, first off, less is more, Special Air Service; stand by, stand by, go-go-go, and, transfer the colonial holdings to local control, which was still onside and willing to do business with the Crown while not willing to do business with the Soviets, and lastly, anything which was not conducive to this model; just walk away.

Divide and rule, means a handful of men can control a country the size of India. Lots of banning of guns in the population too.

[Smitty-48]

Once the Americans were directly engaged, the biggest strategic mistake they made, was falling prey to the Mandarin's definition of the National Liberation Front as being the "Vietnamese Communist Traitors" or "Viet Cong".

This was not actually the case, the NLF was in play, the Americans could in fact have turned the "VC" to the American side, as a Nationalist-Bhuddist liberation front, which would have boxed the North Vietnamese out, and taken Diem and the General's around him down, without America having to incite the cycle of coups and then rely on unstable Junta's.

The peasants in the countryside who propped up the Viet Cong, did not support Saigon nor Hanoi, and if the Americans could have avoided getting into a fight with the NLF, the Bhuddists, and the peasants, America could have then won the war on the battlefield, by Green Berets alone, using the British SAS model.

America didn't recognize who its true enemy was, it wasn't Ho Chi Minh, it wasn't even Ngo Dinh Diem, it wasn't even Diem's brother, it was the power behind the power behind the throne; Diem's sister-in-law, Madame Nhu, the Dragon Lady, she was pulling the strings from behind the curtains, through her husband, Ngo Dinh Nhu, head of the South Vietnamese secret police.