Vietnam Documentary

[Montegriffo]

Here's a good interview with Burns and Novick.

The Vietnam War Is the Key to Understanding Today's America: Q&A with Filmmakers Ken Burns and Lynn Novick

Just watched it, good interview as you say. A great advert for PBS. I am liking Ken Burns, he gets to the point and stays there.

[GloryofGreece]

Thailand was never part of Indochina, Thailand is actually the only Southeast Asian country never to be colonized by Europeans.

Thailand is Siam, that was a power unto itself, the French basically annexed Cambodia and Laos from Siam for all intents and purposes.

The French take over in the mid-19th century, about the time America is fighting the Civil War and conquering the Wild West, the French are moving into Indochina, they rule until the Japanese depose them, then the Indochinese fight with America to defeat the Japanese, but then after the war, the Americans reinstall the French as the colonial power, at which point, all heck breaks loose;
French-Indochina War

How did Siam stay independent with all those global powers chumping at the bit to gobble up territory? Not a lot of profitable natural resources/economic motivation to control them or what?

Better governance, stronger and more deeply entrenched political infrastructure, powerful central authority, Siam was far more resistant to divide and conquer, they were an empire unto themselves, they had to cede their colonial territories to the British and French, but at the same time they were cunning about making deals with them to keep them out, they essentially played ball with the European powers, "you leave us alone and we can do profitable business with you, and to hold on to the territories that you have annexed, it's in your interests to have us as a stable ally rather than as a sworn enemy, let's be friends, we're imperialists too, we're not here to stop you from doing business, we can help..."

The reason why Indochina and Burma was ripe for the picking, is because those were Siamese imperial colonies which the Siamese themselves had decapitated, losing their colonies, but cutting deals to maintain their own independence, that was just the price of doing business, and the British and French had as much if not more than they could chew already, so having Siam as a pliable and willing ally to help them keep a lid on things, they rightly saw as being a good deal for them as well.

Even when the Americans show up, Thailand is still the Imperial Fortress which is willing to host them, that's where most of the USAF airpower was based, U-Tapao Royal Thai Naval Air Station in Rayong, that was the forward operating base for SAC, that's where the Arclight Strikes with the B-52's were launched from.

I believe I read you said that between the American Civil War and Vietnam War you can basically understand most of what you need to know about the United States or something to that effect. So you don't agree with Dan Carlin that the Cold War was the most trans formative event in American history as far as political impact?

[Smitty-48]

I believe I read you said that between the American Civil War and Vietnam War you can basically understand most of what you need to know about the United States or something to that effect. So you don't agree with Dan Carlin that the Cold War was the most trans formative event in American history as far as political impact?

Even if I were to agree, Vietnam is the main event in that American Cold War. Although what I say is; The Civil War and the Vietnam War are the bookends of American history, it's A to B, what starts at the Gulf of Fort Sumter culminates at the Gulf of Tonkin.

All hegemons have an arc, the American hegemony is born at Shiloh Church and it reached its zenith in the Ia Drang Valley. The great American hegemon burst from the fires of Cemetery Ridge like a pheonix, and set forth to free all the slaves everywhere in the name of the American Gods, at Hill 937 in the A Shau Valley, the great American hegemon stopped.

The Confederate Kings of Virginie, are the ones what made the American hegenomy, the Communist Dictators of Hanoi, are the ones what broke it.

What happens to America after the Vietnam War? Don't know, because the Americans are still fighting it, even now, it's not over yet, still in progress for America, the quagmire persists.

The Cold War in Indochina, it followed the Americans home, chased them across the seas, and now it plays out, all day everyday, on main street USA, Madame Nhu cackles with glee, from her perch in Hell, as her vengeance is at hand, even beyond the grave . . .

. . . the poison pill; hearts and minds, pacification, search and destroy, it's in the bones now, burn the village to save the village, America's credo.

[Alexander PhiAlipson]

So, are you lying to us now, or we're you lying to us then?
How is it that the very same people, as well as their offspring, who once couldn't trust the government to give them the correct time of day, are staring slack-jawed into the weeping pus-hole of that same state's propaganda organ thrilled to hear the truth--finally?

[Smitty-48]

The situation now is eerily similar to the late sixties/early seventies, Nixon came in as the outsider in 68', in the face of a government which was entirely run by the Eisenhower Republicans and New Dealer Democrats, the Best and the Brightest despised Nixon and Nixon despised them, Nixon didn't trust the CIA, and once J Edgar Hoover was gone, the FBI could no longer be relied upon neither. The liberal media was taking all its cues from the entrenched interests whom were out to bring Nixon down at all costs, and all Nixon could do was circle the wagons in the White House, and try to appeal to the Great Silent Majority out in Fly Over Country and the Industrial Heartland.

[GloryofGreece]

The situation now is eerily similar to the late sixties/early seventies, Nixon came in as the outsider in 68', in the face of a government which was entirely run by the Eisenhower Republicans and New Dealer Democrats, the Best and the Brightest despised Nixon and Nixon despised them, Nixon didn't trust the CIA, and once J Edgar Hoover was gone, the FBI could no longer be relied upon neither. The liberal media was taking all its cues from the entrenched interests whom were out to bring Nixon down at all costs, and all Nixon could do was circle the wagons in the White House, and try to appeal to the Great Silent Majority out in Fly Over Country and the Industrial Heartland.

Nixon the "outsider" sounds a bit much to me. He was a career politician that lost a lot through and through. He had determination ill give him that. He was no populist or man of the people etc.

[Smitty-48]

The situation now is eerily similar to the late sixties/early seventies, Nixon came in as the outsider in 68', in the face of a government which was entirely run by the Eisenhower Republicans and New Dealer Democrats, the Best and the Brightest despised Nixon and Nixon despised them, Nixon didn't trust the CIA, and once J Edgar Hoover was gone, the FBI could no longer be relied upon neither. The liberal media was taking all its cues from the entrenched interests whom were out to bring Nixon down at all costs, and all Nixon could do was circle the wagons in the White House, and try to appeal to the Great Silent Majority out in Fly Over Country and the Industrial Heartland.

Nixon the "outsider" sounds a bit much to me. He was a career politician that lost a lot through and through. He had determination ill give him that. He was no populist or man of the people etc.

No, Nixon was the outsider, nobody in Washington wanted Nixon, not the New Dealers, nor the Eisenhower Republicans, and not the Barry Goldwater Republicans neither, Nixon had been humiliated by Kennedy in 1960, Nixon was done, that's when Nixon said "you don't have Nixon to kick around anymore", Nixon in 68', is one of the greatest political comebacks of all time.

The only reason he was where he was, is because LBJ impaled himself and the Democrats on North Vietnam, none the less, Nixon had no allies in Washington, Nixon had no reliable political friends, with the exception of J. Edgar Hoover, Nixon was the outsider in Washington, and he was certainly the outsider to the New Dealer orthodoxy which had ruled unchallenged in America, from FDR to Hamburger Hill.

This is why Nixon didn't trust anybody, to include the CIA, who he insisted had helped Kennedy win in 1960, Nixon didn't even let the CIA into the Oval Office, wouldn't take their briefings, all briefings were done by Kissinger, Nixon was so paranoid of the CIA, he froze them out and ran his own intel from in house.

Nixon was the outsider because Nixon was his own man, he did what Nixon wanted to do and he wasn't beholden to anybody elses agenda, Nixon danced to his own tune, and he was the man of the people, for the Great Silent Majority, liberal elites hated Nixon same as they hate Trump, but the Great Silent Majority was behind him all the way, hence the crushing landslide victory in 72'.

The New Dealers were indeed totally ascendent in 1960, the people were behind the Best and the Brightest, the Best and the Brightest were trusted implicity, until they totally discredited themselves in the jungles of Indochina, at which point, the nation cracked into two camps, and the camp which Nixon called the Great Silent Majority, who were in fact the original Neoconservatives, to them, Nixon was the Great White Hope.