Preparing for Uncertainty and Self Reliance

[Fife]

Yes, it looks to me like the value of super-fresh spinach, kale, tomatoes, and the like far exceed any premium for super-fresh citrus, apples, avocados, and the stuff that is just fine after a week or so in transport.

I'd gladly pay a good bit extra in January for spinach picked today. For oranges? Meh. I've still got some oranges left from the Christmas crate my aunt and uncle in Arizona sent me.


BTW-- Speaking of stuff worth a premium: the oysters from the gulf are finally getting back in shape after the big storm. Do you all have local markets for stuff trucked up from the gulf (or whatever saltwater you are close to) overnight?

[C-Mag]

Yes, it looks to me like the value of super-fresh spinach, kale, tomatoes, and the like far exceed any premium for super-fresh citrus, apples, avocados, and the stuff that is just fine after a week or so in transport.

I'd gladly pay a good bit extra in January for spinach picked today. For oranges? Meh. I've still got some oranges left from the Christmas crate my aunt and uncle in Arizona sent me.


BTW-- Speaking of stuff worth a premium: the oysters from the gulf are finally getting back in shape after the big storm. Do you all have local markets for stuff trucked up from the gulf (or whatever saltwater you are close to) overnight?

+1 to you and Brewbro

Lots of products that could be grown locally in these systems that aren't very good if transported across the country or internationally. I think there is definitely a place for this kind of stuff. My main thing is I'd like to see more individuals and communities self sufficient and less reliant on international corporate food producers. It's good for communites and its good for individuals.

[brewster]

Yes, it looks to me like the value of super-fresh spinach, kale, tomatoes, and the like far exceed any premium for super-fresh citrus, apples, avocados, and the stuff that is just fine after a week or so in transport.

I'd gladly pay a good bit extra in January for spinach picked today. For oranges? Meh. I've still got some oranges left from the Christmas crate my aunt and uncle in Arizona sent me.


BTW-- Speaking of stuff worth a premium: the oysters from the gulf are finally getting back in shape after the big storm. Do you all have local markets for stuff trucked up from the gulf (or whatever saltwater you are close to) overnight?

And it's not just price & freshness. Assuming you could grow potatoes in a greenhouse and get even twice the normal price, that price is so low it could never be cost effective to build those greenhouses. Dollar yield per unit of area is critical.

Around here there's been a lot of oyster farm expansion on the Jersey Shore and on Long Island. Scallops too. Once upon a time NY Harbor was the greatest oyster fishery on earth. Oysters were so plentiful they were working mans food, there were barges on the East River where oyster boats would drop their harvest at one end and they were serving oyster chowder to crowds at the other. Oyster shell was used as aggregate for roads and construction. There's projects to re-establish them, not for eating necessary but for fixing the broken harbor ecology.

[Speaker to Animals]

As long as he can sell for the same price as Florida oranges, he makes a killing. He has few distribution costs and his houses are far more energy and water efficient than some large grove in Central Florida.

This is the part I have a hard time with. The capitalization of the Florida grove is far, far less since there's no structure whatsoever, and the energy involved is really just spraying and other maintenance. They get a fair amount of rain in FL, often daily, so I don't know even how much irrigation needs to be done. We hear of frost hazards, but not every year.

Most of the greenhouse crops I hear about locally are herbs, tomatoes and other very high value stuff that puts a premium on being super fresh. Nothing that is commodity in any form like oranges are.

Energy costs are actually pretty high. Mostly in fuel costs to run all the tractors and trucks.

This guy has none of that. The whole greenhouse runs on less than a dollar per day. His profit margins must be sweet. Total profit, though, is obviously not going to compare to a large grove in Central Florida.

His distro cost is the fuel required to drive a truck to the farmer's market.

His cost to sell whatever he pays to rent some tables.

Just think about that. If his retail price point is anything like the grocery store, he is making far more profit per lbs of oranges than a Florida orange grower, who gets much less than retail from the co-op who gets less than retail from distributors, and so on.

[Speaker to Animals]

Neversink Farm guy has a YouTube channel where he shows how he did it.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp6Ia4 ... g/featured

[DBTrek]

Screw all that, man. Where my frozen Monsanto-grown GMO fruit at? Modified for super human resistance powers at a price that’s on point!

Subsidize my bags of frozen blueberries, plebs.

[Speaker to Animals]

Start small. Grow slowly. Focus on efficiency.

[brewster]

Energy costs are actually pretty high. Mostly in fuel costs to run all the tractors and trucks.

For what besides spraying and collecting the fruit? It's not like he's plowing the fields every year, it's an orchard.

[Speaker to Animals]

Energy costs are actually pretty high. Mostly in fuel costs to run all the tractors and trucks.

For what besides spraying and collecting the fruit? It's not like he's plowing the fields every year, it's an orchard.

Spraying, pollinating in some cases, and picking. It's not just one time either. They also have to use vehicles to travel around the grove regularly just like this guy has to walk through his greenhouse every day. That stuff adds up.

[brewster]

Energy costs are actually pretty high. Mostly in fuel costs to run all the tractors and trucks.

For what besides spraying and collecting the fruit? It's not like he's plowing the fields every year, it's an orchard.

Spraying, pollinating in some cases, and picking. It's not just one time either. They also have to use vehicles to travel around the grove regularly just like this guy has to walk through his greenhouse every day. That stuff adds up.

But it can't add up proportionately. Just like the beer guy says transport is a nominal cost to retail, fuel can't be that big a cost to an orchard. Field crops that get a combine pass for tilling, planting, multiple sprayings, weeding, harvesting, etc, sure.