katsung47

[StCapps]

They fell off when they were put into different offensive systems - not surprising to anyone that knows the game.

Also, Marshall had a weird bromance with Cutler that bordered on co-dependency.

Anyway, Cutler is a great example of what I’m talking about. Good QB, despite what anyone says. Hampered by an absolutely shit O-line, and pounded into the turf every game for years. Eventually run out of town by fanboys that only see fantasy stats.

In his last season, the Bears swapped O-line positions every single week, looking for someone to keep his ass vertical, which only added more confusion. Eventually, he just started lobbing the ball to avoid getting hurt. I feel bad for the guy.

They fell off because they are old and clearly in decline. Cutler was trash. You clearly overvalue players who play for the Bears, you sound like such a homer.

I know my team, and I know the game. You simply cannot win when business interferes with operations - same as IT work.

Look at the Patriots. Why has no one figured out that letting the coach pick your players is better than a fucking executive playing salary games?

Nonsense. Not every coach is Belichick, you can't run a franchise pretending your coach is Belichick, GM's matter, you can't look at the biggest outlier and base your strategy around having a great coach who is also a great GM, Belichick's don't grow on trees fool.

The Patriots aren't successful because they let a coach be the GM, they are successful because Bill Belichick is a unique football genius who can do both at once better than any one coach and GM can do their job, and that is not replicable by other teams with coaches who aren't Belichick. Most coaches would make terrible GMs and most GMs would make terrible coaches, Belichick is the exception that proves the rule.

You don't know shit about football if you think Marshall and Forte are still good and only fell off because of the system they played in, or that Cutler only failed because of the O-line. Nor do you know shit about football if you think the Bears would be better off letting their coach be the GM. You don't know your team, you are a homer who is too emotionally attached to his team to think straight about them.

[SuburbanFarmer]

They fell off because they are old and clearly in decline. Cutler was trash. You clearly overvalue players who play for the Bears, you sound like such a homer.

I know my team, and I know the game. You simply cannot win when business interferes with operations - same as IT work.

Look at the Patriots. Why has no one figured out that letting the coach pick your players is better than a fucking executive playing salary games?

Nonsense. Not every coach is Belichick, you can't run a franchise pretending your coach is Belichick, GM's matter, you can't look at the biggest outlier and base your strategy around having a great coach who is also a great GM, Belichick's don't grow on trees fool.

The Patriots aren't successful because they let a coach be the GM, they are successful because Bill Belichick is a unique football genius who can do both at once better than any one coach and GM can do their job, and that is not replicable by other teams with coaches who aren't Belichick. Most coaches would make terrible GMs and most GMs would make terrible coaches, Belichick is the exception that prove the rule.

You don't know shit about football if you think Marshall and Forte are still good and only fell of because of the system they played in, or that Cutler only failed because of the O-line.

Do I think they’re still that good in 2019? Of course not. But the Bears should have racked up a hell of a lot more wins with them, and kept them around longer.

The game is about the O-line. Again, watch the Patriots in week 1. They line up the biggest O-line in the league. By a wide margin. So do the Packers, btw. Another team with a “legendary” QB.

[StCapps]

I know my team, and I know the game. You simply cannot win when business interferes with operations - same as IT work.

Look at the Patriots. Why has no one figured out that letting the coach pick your players is better than a fucking executive playing salary games?

Nonsense. Not every coach is Belichick, you can't run a franchise pretending your coach is Belichick, GM's matter, you can't look at the biggest outlier and base your strategy around having a great coach who is also a great GM, Belichick's don't grow on trees fool.

The Patriots aren't successful because they let a coach be the GM, they are successful because Bill Belichick is a unique football genius who can do both at once better than any one coach and GM can do their job, and that is not replicable by other teams with coaches who aren't Belichick. Most coaches would make terrible GMs and most GMs would make terrible coaches, Belichick is the exception that prove the rule.

You don't know shit about football if you think Marshall and Forte are still good and only fell of because of the system they played in, or that Cutler only failed because of the O-line.

Do I think they’re still that good in 2019? Of course not. But the Bears should have racked up a hell of a lot more wins with them, and kept them around longer.

The game is about the O-line. Again, watch the Patriots in week 1. They line up the biggest O-line in the league. By a wide margin. So do the Packers, btw. Another team with a “legendary” QB.

The Packers O-line ain't that good, it's all Rodgers. Brady has a good O-line, but that isn't what makes him great, you can't just throw any QB in that system and have them thrive, if that was the case, they would bring a cheap replacement QB and spend more on the O-line, they don't for a reason, Brady and Rodgers don't grow on trees either dude. Attributing their success entirely to the O-line is flat out retarded, and another sign you don't know anything about football.

A good O-line is important, and many folks undervalue their contributions, but that doesn't mean it's as important as you pretend it is, like it's the end all, be all. You are a reactionary who overcompensates for the O-line getting over looked by many folks, so you go around pretending it's the only thing that matters, to the point that no QB is any good unless they have a good O-line, and if they had a bad O-line they would suck. Andrew Luck had one of the worst O-line's in the NFL for years, and yet he didn't suck and carried the team. Aaron Rodgers has carried the Packers even when their O-line sucks, same with Brady, sure they both do better when they don't suck, but that doesn't mean they are responsible for them being "legendary" QBs.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Nonsense. Not every coach is Belichick, you can't run a franchise pretending your coach is Belichick, GM's matter, you can't look at the biggest outlier and base your strategy around having a great coach who is also a great GM, Belichick's don't grow on trees fool.

The Patriots aren't successful because they let a coach be the GM, they are successful because Bill Belichick is a unique football genius who can do both at once better than any one coach and GM can do their job, and that is not replicable by other teams with coaches who aren't Belichick. Most coaches would make terrible GMs and most GMs would make terrible coaches, Belichick is the exception that prove the rule.

You don't know shit about football if you think Marshall and Forte are still good and only fell of because of the system they played in, or that Cutler only failed because of the O-line.

Do I think they’re still that good in 2019? Of course not. But the Bears should have racked up a hell of a lot more wins with them, and kept them around longer.

The game is about the O-line. Again, watch the Patriots in week 1. They line up the biggest O-line in the league. By a wide margin. So do the Packers, btw. Another team with a “legendary” QB.

The Packers O-line ain't that good, it's all Rodgers. Brady has a good O-line, but that isn't what makes him great, you can't just throw any QB in that system and have them thrive, if that was the case, they would bring a cheap replacement QB and spend more on the O-line, they don't for a reason, Brady and Rodgers don't grow on trees either dude. Attributing their success entirely to the O-line flat out retarded, and another sign you don't know anything about football.

Brady was a wash-up before the Pats. So was Favre before the Packers. Rodgers was just ok.

I mean, I don’t know how much evidence you need, but what happened to the last dozen “future all-stars” coming out of college? Vince Young, anyone?

The QB is only as good as his team, with very few exceptions. Hell, I’d put Peyton Manning up against anyone for the title of GOAT, but it doesn’t matter. He was stuck on a shit team for his entire career.

Tom Brady goes down for half a season, and his backup wins every damn game. You want to pretend that he’s a great QB, regardless?

[StCapps]

Do I think they’re still that good in 2019? Of course not. But the Bears should have racked up a hell of a lot more wins with them, and kept them around longer.

The game is about the O-line. Again, watch the Patriots in week 1. They line up the biggest O-line in the league. By a wide margin. So do the Packers, btw. Another team with a “legendary” QB.

The Packers O-line ain't that good, it's all Rodgers. Brady has a good O-line, but that isn't what makes him great, you can't just throw any QB in that system and have them thrive, if that was the case, they would bring a cheap replacement QB and spend more on the O-line, they don't for a reason, Brady and Rodgers don't grow on trees either dude. Attributing their success entirely to the O-line flat out retarded, and another sign you don't know anything about football.

Brady was a wash-up before the Pats. So was Favre before the Packers. Rodgers was just ok.

I mean, I don’t know how much evidence you need, but what happened to the last dozen “future all-stars” coming out of college? Vince Young, anyone?

The QB is only as good as his team, with very few exceptions. Hell, I’d put Peyton Manning up against anyone for the title of GOAT, but it doesn’t matter. He was stuck on a shit team for his entire career.

Tom Brady goes down for half a season, and his backup wins every damn game. You want to pretend that he’s a great QB, regardless?

Why do the backup Patriot QBs never go far in the playoffs then, and only win the Super Bowl with Brady at the helm? Explain that.

Why do the Packers turn into a shitshow when Rodgers goes down? Explain that.

Why was Andrew Luck still great when his O-line was bottom five in the league for multiple seasons? Explain that.

If it's all the O-line, and all QB's, even the greats, are interchangable, these outcomes make no sense whatsoever.

QB's take time to develop, the greats didn't only get good only because of the system, they improved from when they were drafted dumbass. The O-line's didn't make them great, they just help maximize their potential when they are good.

Vince Young didnt fail because he had a shit O-line, he failed because he was overrated as fuck beating up on college kids, and didn't take the next step in the NFL. You can't take any QB and put them on the Patriots and win a Super Bowl, if you could, Belichick would have dumped Brady a long time ago and spent the money elsewhere, yet he didn't, because that would be retarded.

[SuburbanFarmer]

The Packers O-line ain't that good, it's all Rodgers. Brady has a good O-line, but that isn't what makes him great, you can't just throw any QB in that system and have them thrive, if that was the case, they would bring a cheap replacement QB and spend more on the O-line, they don't for a reason, Brady and Rodgers don't grow on trees either dude. Attributing their success entirely to the O-line flat out retarded, and another sign you don't know anything about football.

Brady was a wash-up before the Pats. So was Favre before the Packers. Rodgers was just ok.

I mean, I don’t know how much evidence you need, but what happened to the last dozen “future all-stars” coming out of college? Vince Young, anyone?

The QB is only as good as his team, with very few exceptions. Hell, I’d put Peyton Manning up against anyone for the title of GOAT, but it doesn’t matter. He was stuck on a shit team for his entire career.

Tom Brady goes down for half a season, and his backup wins every damn game. You want to pretend that he’s a great QB, regardless?

Why do the backup Patriot QBs never go far in the playoffs then, and only win the Super Bowl with Brady at the helm? Explain that.

.

Garoppolo was benched when Brady came back. Duh.

Why do the Packers turn into a shitshow when Rodgers goes down? Explain that.

The Packers weren’t much worse without him. The ridiculous roughing calls against Clay Matthews early in the season pretty much destroyed them last year.

Why was Andrew Luck still great when his O-line was bottom five in the league for multiple seasons? Explain that.

When the hell has anyone ever called Andrew Luck “great”??

If it's all the O-line, and all QB's, even the greats, are interchangable, these outcomes make no sense whatsoever.

You’re arguing ad extremis, as always. That’s not the argument I made. But essentially, yes. QBs are far less critical than fanboys and owners think.

QB's take time to develop, the greats didn't only get good only because of the system, they improved from when they were drafted dumbass. The O-line's didn't make them great, they just help maximize their potential when they are good.

Vince Young didnt fail because he had a shit O-line, he failed because he was overrated as fuck beating up on college kids, and didn't take the next step in the NFL. You can't take any QB and put them on the Patriots and win a Super Bowl, if you could, Belichick would have dumped Brady a long time ago and spent the money elsewhere, yet he didn't, because that would be retarded.

I’d argue that yes - you could take pretty much any NFL-level QB and win with him on the Patriots.

Also, Tom Brady takes far less than other QBs, because he knows he doesn’t deserve it. He serves at the pleasure of Belichik.

[StCapps]

Brady was a wash-up before the Pats. So was Favre before the Packers. Rodgers was just ok.

I mean, I don’t know how much evidence you need, but what happened to the last dozen “future all-stars” coming out of college? Vince Young, anyone?

The QB is only as good as his team, with very few exceptions. Hell, I’d put Peyton Manning up against anyone for the title of GOAT, but it doesn’t matter. He was stuck on a shit team for his entire career.

Tom Brady goes down for half a season, and his backup wins every damn game. You want to pretend that he’s a great QB, regardless?

Why do the backup Patriot QBs never go far in the playoffs then, and only win the Super Bowl with Brady at the helm? Explain that.

.

Garoppolo was benched when Brady came back. Duh.

Why do the Packers turn into a shitshow when Rodgers goes down? Explain that.

The Packers weren’t much worse without him. The ridiculous roughing calls against Clay Matthews early in the season pretty much destroyed them last year.

Why was Andrew Luck still great when his O-line was bottom five in the league for multiple seasons? Explain that.

When the hell has anyone ever called Andrew Luck “great”??

If it's all the O-line, and all QB's, even the greats, are interchangable, these outcomes make no sense whatsoever.

You’re arguing ad extremis, as always. That’s not the argument I made. But essentially, yes. QBs are far less critical than fanboys and owners think.

QB's take time to develop, the greats didn't only get good only because of the system, they improved from when they were drafted dumbass. The O-line's didn't make them great, they just help maximize their potential when they are good.

Vince Young didnt fail because he had a shit O-line, he failed because he was overrated as fuck beating up on college kids, and didn't take the next step in the NFL. You can't take any QB and put them on the Patriots and win a Super Bowl, if you could, Belichick would have dumped Brady a long time ago and spent the money elsewhere, yet he didn't, because that would be retarded.

I’d argue that yes - you could take pretty much any NFL-level QB and win with him on the Patriots.

Also, Tom Brady takes far less than other QBs, because he knows he doesn’t deserve it. He serves at the pleasure of Belichik.

Tom Brady lost a season in 2008 after getting a season ending injury in the first game and The Patriots and didn't even make the playoffs with Matt Cassel. Your theory does not reflect reality.

The Packers were much worse with Rodgers, every single time he's gotten hurt for extended periods, in both 2013 (8-7-1) and 2017 (7-9), it's a pattern, goldfish memory man. Imagine how bad they would have been if that happened last year, they would have been one of the worst teams in the league, Cardinals and 49ers would have had some fierce competition from the Packers without Rodgers.

[clubgop]

They fell off when they were put into different offensive systems - not surprising to anyone that knows the game.

Also, Marshall had a weird bromance with Cutler that bordered on co-dependency.

Anyway, Cutler is a great example of what I’m talking about. Good QB, despite what anyone says. Hampered by an absolutely shit O-line, and pounded into the turf every game for years. Eventually run out of town by fanboys that only see fantasy stats.

In his last season, the Bears swapped O-line positions every single week, looking for someone to keep his ass vertical, which only added more confusion. Eventually, he just started lobbing the ball to avoid getting hurt. I feel bad for the guy.

They fell off because they are old and clearly in decline. Cutler was trash. You clearly overvalue players who play for the Bears, you sound like such a homer.

I know my team, and I know the game. You simply cannot win when business interferes with operations - same as IT work.

Look at the Patriots. Why has no one figured out that letting the coach pick your players is better than a fucking executive playing salary games?

You have to have both because of the cap. Not to mention an ownership that wants to win.

[StCapps]

They fell off because they are old and clearly in decline. Cutler was trash. You clearly overvalue players who play for the Bears, you sound like such a homer.

I know my team, and I know the game. You simply cannot win when business interferes with operations - same as IT work.

Look at the Patriots. Why has no one figured out that letting the coach pick your players is better than a fucking executive playing salary games?

You have to have both because of the cap. Not to mention an ownership that wants to win.

Not just ownership who wants to win, but ownership who refuses to meddle and let the GM and coach do their jobs without needless interference. Meddlesome ownership caring so much about winning that they stick their nose into everything is bad juju, so it can be a double-edged sword. Ownership should stick to being owners, not pretending they are GM's or coaches to the team's detriment.

The GM should stick to being a GM, the coach should stick to coaching, unless you have a Belichick, of which there is only one, and the Bears ain't getting their hands on him.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I know my team, and I know the game. You simply cannot win when business interferes with operations - same as IT work.

Look at the Patriots. Why has no one figured out that letting the coach pick your players is better than a fucking executive playing salary games?

You have to have both because of the cap. Not to mention an ownership that wants to win.

Not just ownership who wants to win, but ownership who refuses to meddle and let the GM and coach do their jobs without needless interference. Meddlesome ownership caring so much about winning that they stick their nose into everything is bad juju, so it can be a double-edged sword. Ownership should stick to being owners, not pretending they are GM's or coaches to the team's detriment.

The GM should stick to being a GM, the coach should stick to coaching, unless you have a Belichick, of which there is only one, and the Bears ain't getting their hands on him.

Peyton Manning practically ran all aspects of the Broncos for a year and took them straight to a super bowl. You’re seriously telling me that this can’t be done by anyone but Belichik?