RIP

heydaralon
Posts: 7571
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:54 pm

Re: RIP

Post by heydaralon » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:56 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:Stan Lee is a great guy. It's really hard to get a grasp on how much influence he's had on every generation since boomers.

I guess. I've always disliked comic books tbh and felt there is something very offputting about hardcore comic book fans. Its like being a hardcore fan of Lay's potato chips or being really into daytime tv commericials. It ties into the whole reddit culture thing as well, which I loathe. I'm not trying to sound like a snobby douchebag, even though thats how I'm coming off. I don't consider myself to be exceptionally smart or cultured and there are plenty of people way smarter than me on this forum, it just irritates me when this zero effort middle brow shit is what our culture boils down to. There are lots of mindless movies I like, but I just really feel like superhero movies are garbage and made by a cynical studio marketing team. And they keep shitting them out. There is no end in sight. I don't understand why Hollywood, with its billions of dollars and vast creative potential, has to pump out remakes, comic book movies, and sequels. You have some of the most creative people on the planet. Does the spiderman story really need to be retold? Does it need to be told at all? They are remaking big trouble in little china with the Rock as Jack Burton. It feels like Hollywood has a lambo, and they are just using it to drive to the post office when they could be racing around the world.
Shikata ga nai

User avatar
Speaker to Animals
Posts: 38685
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: RIP

Post by Speaker to Animals » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:58 pm

heydaralon wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:Stan Lee is a great guy. It's really hard to get a grasp on how much influence he's had on every generation since boomers.

I guess. I've always disliked comic books tbh and felt there is something very offputting about hardcore comic book fans. Its like being a hardcore fan of Lay's potato chips or being really into daytime tv commericials. It ties into the whole reddit culture thing as well, which I loathe. I'm not trying to sound like a snobby douchebag, even though thats how I'm coming off. I don't consider myself to be exceptionally smart or cultured and there are plenty of people way smarter than me on this forum, it just irritates me when this zero effort middle brow shit is what our culture boils down to. There are lots of mindless movies I like, but I just really feel like superhero movies are garbage and made by a cynical studio marketing team. And they keep shitting them out. There is no end in sight. I don't understand why Hollywood, with its billions of dollars and vast creative potential, has to pump out remakes, comic book movies, and sequels. You have some of the most creative people on the planet. Does the spiderman story really need to be retold? Does it need to be told at all? They are remaking big trouble in little china with the Rock as Jack Burton. It feels like Hollywood has a lambo, and they are just using it to drive to the post office when they could be racing around the world.

You do have a point. I liked comics until I was a teenager. Then I started reading SF novels. That's where I am today. Those novels shaped me more than comic books ever did. I never really got the guys who were grown men still reading them, but that's their thing, I guess.

I like some of the Netflix shows (Daredevil and Luke Cage are really good). The films are a bit redundant and formulaic, but so is most of Hollywood now.

User avatar
SuburbanFarmer
Posts: 25279
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:50 am
Location: Ohio

Re: RIP

Post by SuburbanFarmer » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:01 pm

It's exactly that - cynical marketing to mass appeal. Most people in the current purchasing generation were familiar with comic books growing up, so it's an easy cash grab. Eventually, the bubble pops, when we're all sick of Spider-Man remakes, and something else takes over. Another toy or game from the 80s/90s, until we're sick of that too.

The corporate machine must consume.
SJWs are a natural consequence of corporatism.

Formerly GrumpyCatFace

https://youtu.be/CYbT8-rSqo0

heydaralon
Posts: 7571
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:54 pm

Re: RIP

Post by heydaralon » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:03 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:
heydaralon wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:Stan Lee is a great guy. It's really hard to get a grasp on how much influence he's had on every generation since boomers.

I guess. I've always disliked comic books tbh and felt there is something very offputting about hardcore comic book fans. Its like being a hardcore fan of Lay's potato chips or being really into daytime tv commericials. It ties into the whole reddit culture thing as well, which I loathe. I'm not trying to sound like a snobby douchebag, even though thats how I'm coming off. I don't consider myself to be exceptionally smart or cultured and there are plenty of people way smarter than me on this forum, it just irritates me when this zero effort middle brow shit is what our culture boils down to. There are lots of mindless movies I like, but I just really feel like superhero movies are garbage and made by a cynical studio marketing team. And they keep shitting them out. There is no end in sight. I don't understand why Hollywood, with its billions of dollars and vast creative potential, has to pump out remakes, comic book movies, and sequels. You have some of the most creative people on the planet. Does the spiderman story really need to be retold? Does it need to be told at all? They are remaking big trouble in little china with the Rock as Jack Burton. It feels like Hollywood has a lambo, and they are just using it to drive to the post office when they could be racing around the world.

You do have a point. I liked comics until I was a teenager. Then I started reading SF novels. That's where I am today. Those novels shaped me more than comic books ever did. I never really got the guys who were grown men still reading them, but that's their thing, I guess.

I like some of the Netflix shows (Daredevil and Luke Cage are really good). The films are a bit redundant and formulaic, but so is most of Hollywood now.
You have probably read far more scifi than I have, but I feel like scifi is a compelling way to explore philosophical and metaphysical questions about what it means to human, the relationship between technology and society, and spiritual needs that man faces in a world where he has god like powers through science. There are plenty of scifi authors who do this well, and use the medium to explore these ideas. Phillip K Dick was great at this, as was M John Harrison and JG Ballard. I don't feel like comic books have that kind of depth though. Some of them are illustrated well, but they don't really get people to think. This is just my opinion. I guess I'm tired of seeing these Marvel remakes and getting dragged to them. I saw daredevil season 1. It was ok. I gave up on Luke Cage. To each his own. Clearly I'm nuts because all of my friends eat these movies up. Maybe I'm living wrong lol
Shikata ga nai

heydaralon
Posts: 7571
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:54 pm

Re: RIP

Post by heydaralon » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:23 pm

GrumpyCatFace wrote:It's exactly that - cynical marketing to mass appeal. Most people in the current purchasing generation were familiar with comic books growing up, so it's an easy cash grab. Eventually, the bubble pops, when we're all sick of Spider-Man remakes, and something else takes over. Another toy or game from the 80s/90s, until we're sick of that too.

The corporate machine must consume.
I think after people get tired of comic movies, whatever comes after it will probably suck too. I guess the blockbuster dogshit helps pay for some of the smaller movies I like, so its like a yin and yang thing. China is also dragging the lowest common denominator even further down. They need to change that Mencken quote to: "No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the Chinese public." It is quite nauseating how our studios pander to them with the transformer movies, the martian, the great wall etc. I don't want to watch a movie that coincides with what a bunch of Chinese people want to see.
Shikata ga nai

User avatar
SuburbanFarmer
Posts: 25279
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:50 am
Location: Ohio

Re: RIP

Post by SuburbanFarmer » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:25 pm

heydaralon wrote:
GrumpyCatFace wrote:It's exactly that - cynical marketing to mass appeal. Most people in the current purchasing generation were familiar with comic books growing up, so it's an easy cash grab. Eventually, the bubble pops, when we're all sick of Spider-Man remakes, and something else takes over. Another toy or game from the 80s/90s, until we're sick of that too.

The corporate machine must consume.
I think after people get tired of comic movies, whatever comes after it will probably suck too. I guess the blockbuster dogshit helps pay for some of the smaller movies I like, so its like a yin and yang thing. China is also dragging the lowest common denominator even further down. They need to change that Mencken quote to: "No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the Chinese public." It is quite nauseating how our studios pander to them with the transformer movies, the martian, the great wall etc. I don't want to watch a movie that coincides with what a bunch of Chinese people want to see.
Hey, I love the Martian. That was a great movie, except for the silly jump between spaceships at the end. Although, come to think of it, they did skip over a LOT of great things from the book.
SJWs are a natural consequence of corporatism.

Formerly GrumpyCatFace

https://youtu.be/CYbT8-rSqo0

Penner
Posts: 3350
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:00 pm

Re: RIP

Post by Penner » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:28 pm

GrumpyCatFace wrote:It's exactly that - cynical marketing to mass appeal. Most people in the current purchasing generation were familiar with comic books growing up, so it's an easy cash grab. Eventually, the bubble pops, when we're all sick of Spider-Man remakes, and something else takes over. Another toy or game from the 80s/90s, until we're sick of that too.

The corporate machine must consume.
Yeah, they are formalistic but what people like is that at least Marvel would change up the theme of their movies. Captain America movies are more spy thrillers, while Dr. Strange is supposed to be more supernatural/cosmic horror, etc.... The Netflix shows have also done this as well. Jessica Jones is like a noir crime drama, Iron Fist is like a 1980s kung-fu movie, Luke Cage is an homage to Harlem etc....
Image

User avatar
SuburbanFarmer
Posts: 25279
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:50 am
Location: Ohio

Re: RIP

Post by SuburbanFarmer » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:30 pm

Penner wrote:
GrumpyCatFace wrote:It's exactly that - cynical marketing to mass appeal. Most people in the current purchasing generation were familiar with comic books growing up, so it's an easy cash grab. Eventually, the bubble pops, when we're all sick of Spider-Man remakes, and something else takes over. Another toy or game from the 80s/90s, until we're sick of that too.

The corporate machine must consume.
Yeah, they are formalistic but what people like is that at least Marvel would change up the theme of their movies. Captain America movies are more spy thrillers, while Dr. Strange is supposed to be more supernatural/cosmic horror, etc.... The Netflix shows have also done this as well. Jessica Jones is like a noir crime drama, Iron Fist is like a 1980s kung-fu movie, Luke Cage is an homage to Harlem etc....
Like I said... same story, different setting. I don't see a lot of difference in any of them, tbh.
SJWs are a natural consequence of corporatism.

Formerly GrumpyCatFace

https://youtu.be/CYbT8-rSqo0

heydaralon
Posts: 7571
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:54 pm

Re: RIP

Post by heydaralon » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:37 pm

GrumpyCatFace wrote:
Penner wrote:
GrumpyCatFace wrote:It's exactly that - cynical marketing to mass appeal. Most people in the current purchasing generation were familiar with comic books growing up, so it's an easy cash grab. Eventually, the bubble pops, when we're all sick of Spider-Man remakes, and something else takes over. Another toy or game from the 80s/90s, until we're sick of that too.

The corporate machine must consume.
Yeah, they are formalistic but what people like is that at least Marvel would change up the theme of their movies. Captain America movies are more spy thrillers, while Dr. Strange is supposed to be more supernatural/cosmic horror, etc.... The Netflix shows have also done this as well. Jessica Jones is like a noir crime drama, Iron Fist is like a 1980s kung-fu movie, Luke Cage is an homage to Harlem etc....
Like I said... same story, different setting. I don't see a lot of difference in any of them, tbh.
There isn't. This what drives me nuts. Comic books are not that good to begin with. The stories are very simple. Just write some new shit from scratch. No need to keep putting a new coat of paint on the abortion clinic dumpster. OOOH this one is darker! Its R rated. Its soo deep. I'm 30 years old and taking a deep interest in this picture book cold war propaganda. Lets remake it again. I love re drinking vomit. I am a pleasure seeking animal!
Shikata ga nai

User avatar
pineapplemike
Posts: 4650
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: RIP

Post by pineapplemike » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:38 pm

heydaralon wrote:You have probably read far more scifi than I have, but I feel like scifi is a compelling way to explore philosophical and metaphysical questions about what it means to human, the relationship between technology and society, and spiritual needs that man faces in a world where he has god like powers through science. There are plenty of scifi authors who do this well, and use the medium to explore these ideas. Phillip K Dick was great at this, as was M John Harrison and JG Ballard. I don't feel like comic books have that kind of depth though. Some of them are illustrated well, but they don't really get people to think. This is just my opinion.
But have you read any comic books? Personally I'm more drawn to books with good art than a good story, after all it's a visual medium, and I like to dabble in art, so that's me. I wouldn't ever try to compare them to a classic novel, I've read more than a few of those too, but there are plenty of comic books that dabble into the realm of the deeper metaphysical, Alan Moore's Saga of the Swamp Thing being the first that comes to mind.
In Moore's first year, Swamp Thing faced an escalating series of demonic menaces, which escalated with rescuing Abigail Cable from Hell itself. To top this, the second year's "American Gothic" storyline brought forth evil incarnate on a march that might culminate in the destruction of heaven but for an understated conversation between Swamp Thing and Evil. The final year of the run had Swamp Thing in exile, pining for his love Abby while he teleported from one world to another until, like Odysseus, he returns home.

For all of the journeys on Earth, space, and other realms, the greatest changes happen to the character of Swamp Thing. In a momentous redefinition, Moore has Swamp Thing learn that he is not the man Alec Holland transformed into something else, but is, rather, a plant creature that never was Alec Holland but that had gained his memories. Given that very unreal situation, Moore, a gifted writer, gives the creature anguish that feels real, and is more human than other DC characters even as, ironically, he finds that he has never been human at all.
http://rikdad.blogspot.com/2015/08/retr ... thing.html
The trick to comic books I think, is when the visual art helps to elevate the story beyond just the written word. Whenever there is a harmony between the writer and artist you'll see the magic happen. I'll easily admit that most comic books are trash, shovel ware shit that aren't worth the acidic paper they're printed on, it's a business just like anything else and I don't think the market is over-saturated yet (but man it's getting close), so they'll keep pumping em out (and raising the price). It's actually a really good time for comic books, Image Comics is doing better than ever by allowing the creators to have free reign over their stories and giving them the proper time to tell them, some of these guys work for years on their books. And they're good.

I don't really read much from Marvel or DC, sometimes Batman or whatever if there's a solid creative team, like I said I'm more of a fan of the artists but I'm not too old (27) to kill some time with Batman as he fucks up some evil-doers. I'm well aware of the negative stereotypes for comic book dweebs, I visit my local shop every few weeks and chat it up, and I promise most of those stereotypes are true. But it's misguided to look your nose down at all of them because the goofy nostalgic and often shallow ones are featured so predominantly in our culture. (I like the movies but I'm not too crazy about them, except for Guardians of the Galaxy which is great)

Anyway, just like anything you'll have to dig through the clutter a little bit to find the good stuff. Hellboy, Transmetropolitan, Sandman. It's out there
Last edited by pineapplemike on Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.