Let's Riff on the next Tech/Social Revolution

[SuburbanFarmer]

So really it boils down to "In my imaginary boogey-man world the government has to take care of us all. But that's only in the future, when we have a magical futuristic economy that produces wealth from apathy."

You know, feudalism ruled the world too, and for centuries at that... until it suddenly didn't anymore. What's that, you say? Some bullshit about Enlightenment philosophers and a rising merchant class? Well, what do you think enabled that shit in the first place? Technology! Without the printing press and shit like the cotton gin, you could never have gotten that kind of critical mass without being primed by mass printed books increasing literacy rates and machines that force multiplied labor to the extent it really started raking in the profits for the owners.

"No sir, I say this German fellow and his silly little ink stamper are nothing to worry about. The landed aristocracy are the guiding force in the modern world, and a few more unartistically formatted books in the hands of the unwashed certainly won't change that!"

Yeah, capitalism isn't obsolete yet. Maybe you're right, and this time won't be different. But here's the thing: it only had to be different once to finally upend feudalism and turbofuck the old nobility so fast their heads literally spun in the public square. Only this time, the Nuevo-Aristocrats learned from their progenitors' mistakes and realized they needed fortified bunkers halfway around the globe, ready to bugout the moment shit starts hitting the fan. This time? It'll be the poor and (what's left of) middleclass that get turbofucked if we're unprepared.

They were "turbofucked" and butchered by the millions by the Bubonic Plague and putting down the countless "peasant revolts" of the 15-16th centuries followed by the Thirty Years War and so forth as well.

The poor get turbofucked, no matter what happens. That's one constant in history. Money = Power

[DBTrek]

The poor get turbofucked, no matter what happens. That's one constant in history. Money = Power

Indeed. That explains why you're all so anxious to become the idle poor, your basic necessities being provided entirely by a powerful government.
Derp!

Yeah, capitalism isn't obsolete yet. Maybe you're right, and this time won't be different. But here's the thing: it only had to be different once to finally upend feudalism and turbofuck the old nobility so fast their heads literally spun in the public square. Only this time, the Nuevo-Aristocrats learned from their progenitors' mistakes and realized they needed fortified bunkers halfway around the globe, ready to bugout the moment shit starts hitting the fan. This time? It'll be the poor and (what's left of) middleclass that get turbofucked if we're unprepared.

"The government take care of me" isn't exactly what I'd call preparing for the future. Also, your description of Feudalism is somewhat lacking, as the term has no commonly accepted definition among scholars. Meaning the general idea of Feudalism has been used to describe everything Ancient Egypt to the Jim Crow South. It certainly isn't a system that suddenly went belly up due to "technology".

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Lord, if I am to be poor, please, please allow me to be idle as well.

[Zlaxer]

The poor get turbofucked, no matter what happens. That's one constant in history. Money = Power

Intelligence and "usefulness to society" usually = money....so if someone is not useful or stupid, they should be poor.

It's when people gain power and money without being useful, e.g., corruption, or when those that are smart can't climb the economic ladder, that you should be up and arms about.....

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

"Useful to society."

Who knew market capitalists were so very collectivist eh?

[KerningChameleon]

The poor get turbofucked, no matter what happens. That's one constant in history. Money = Power

Intelligence and "usefulness to society" usually = money....so if someone is not useful or stupid, they should be poor.

It's when people gain power and money without being useful, e.g., corruption, or when those that are smart can't climb the economic ladder, that you should be up and arms about.....

So, let me get this straight: if a truck driver loses his job because his company bought a fleet of self-driving trucks and thus he is no longer useful to them, and he can't get a job from a different trucking company because they've also switched or are switching to self-driving trucks to stay competitive, and he is, say, middle aged and either is unable or can't afford retraining... that guy and possibly his family deserve to die in poverty? Simply because he made the obviously stupid mistake of entering into a career a few decades beforehand that's suddenly been rendered as irrelevant as horse-drawn cargo cart drivers?

I mean, yeah, I suppose long term that's a self solving problem, but short term that seems like a rather... heartless stance to take. As the conservatives keep telling us, didn't this entire political climate emerge partially because we ignored the plight of the dying rural towns and the increasingly jobless blue collar workers therein?

[Zlaxer]

So, let me get this straight: if a truck driver loses his job because his company bought a fleet of self-driving trucks and thus he is no longer useful to them, and he can't get a job from a different trucking company because they've also switched or are switching to self-driving trucks to stay competitive, and he is, say, middle aged and either is unable or can't afford retraining... that guy and possibly his family deserve to die in poverty? Simply because he made the obviously stupid mistake of entering into a career a few decades beforehand that's suddenly been rendered as irrelevant as horse-drawn cargo cart drivers?

I mean, yeah, I suppose long term that's a self solving problem, but short term that seems like a rather... heartless stance to take.[/quote]

Well, if he is really useful, he should be able to retrain.....the problem is, that most jobs of the future will be beyond the intellectual capacity of most people (Fife disagrees). So, you either have UBI, or, you let natural selection run its course...

[KerningChameleon]

So, let me get this straight: if a truck driver loses his job because his company bought a fleet of self-driving trucks and thus he is no longer useful to them, and he can't get a job from a different trucking company because they've also switched or are switching to self-driving trucks to stay competitive, and he is, say, middle aged and either is unable or can't afford retraining... that guy and possibly his family deserve to die in poverty? Simply because he made the obviously stupid mistake of entering into a career a few decades beforehand that's suddenly been rendered as irrelevant as horse-drawn cargo cart drivers?

I mean, yeah, I suppose long term that's a self solving problem, but short term that seems like a rather... heartless stance to take.

Well, if he is really useful, he should be able to retrain.....the problem is, that most jobs of the future will be beyond the intellectual capacity of most people (Fife disagrees). So, you either have UBI, or, you let natural selection run its course...

Hmm, yes, I'm sure the newly unemployed, debt-ridden, proud NRA members of the blue collar class will peacefully and meekly roll over so the new city-centered high-utopias will emerge. I foresee absolutely zero civic problems with the second option and anticipate their complete and total acceptance of their apparent newfound irrelevance to society at large.

[Zlaxer]

Hmm, yes, I'm sure the newly unemployed, debt-ridden, proud NRA members of the blue collar class will peacefully and meekly roll over so the new city-centered high-utopias will emerge. I foresee absolutely zero civic problems with the second option and anticipate their complete and total acceptance of their apparent newfound irrelevance to society at large.

What you fail to understand - is that the proles don't have a choice....they can haz sad all they want- but they will never be able to do shit about it....

[KerningChameleon]

Hmm, yes, I'm sure the newly unemployed, debt-ridden, proud NRA members of the blue collar class will peacefully and meekly roll over so the new city-centered high-utopias will emerge. I foresee absolutely zero civic problems with the second option and anticipate their complete and total acceptance of their apparent newfound irrelevance to society at large.

What you fail to understand - is that the proles don't have a choice....they can haz sad all they want- but they will never be able to do shit about it....

I fully understand that as much as "bread and circuses" gets rightfully shit on, it's nevertheless an important tool of the ruling class. Especially the bread part. If you can't or won't provide the masses with access to bread (either directly through welfare, or opportunities to gainfully earn it), then they may still die, but they won't die quietly. It'll be loud, and messy, and full of gunpowder. The rich can either find some way to make sure the bread keeps flowing to the underclasses... or they can cower in their New Zealand bunkers and pray the armies of the world are kept in line enough to prevent coups during the "pacification" period.

They appear to be selecting the second option.