Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[Ph64]

We lock up more people because freedom is messy and driven individuals are prone to overstep the line on occasion.

Sheep, on the other hand - you can pen them in with flimsy wooden fences, or control their movements with loud dogs.

That's a really good take on the creeping evil of prior restraint. My compliments to the chef on that one.

...and then you make a gap in that fence and just shoot off some fireworks and shit around them and they'll all run for that gap in the fence... Straight into the slaughterhouse.

[Otern]

Norwegian and British knife/"stabby weapons law" is pretty much the same. And the intent was good, and I could agree with the laws if they were policed by the original intention. Like, you can take a screw driver from some drunkard who's been in fights previously, because it can be reasonably proved his intent of carrying that screw driver to that bar, would be to cause harm.

But both Norway and Britain is taking it too far in the implementation of the law, in that it doesn't take into account context or reason anymore. You can be fined and get your stuff confiscated if you can't prove a reason to carry it, while it should be the other way around. The cops should have to prove intent of causing harm, but they don't need to anymore.

I sometimes bring a multi-tool to work, because sometimes, it's useful. But this could in theory make me a criminal, if I ever met a cop on a power trip. And it has happened to other people here, even for carrying a multi tool on their person while driving a car. I don't need to use every day, sometimes it's just in the pocket without being used at all, and that could be interpreted as "no legitimate reason to carry". It's really a shame that someone with a clean criminal record, can't carry a knife in public. Because it's really just a tool, and everyone will need a knife from time to time, whatever they do for a living.

It just feels so stupid, the times a knife would be useful, but then realizing I left it at home, because there's the risk of some tool of the state to project his insecurities on me for it. Gangs and people with repeated history of violence on their criminal record? Sure, stop and frisk, and take their knives and other stabby objects away. But leave normal people alone.

[C-Mag]

[Otern]

That one's actually an example of a good policy, even though it looks clumsy. They manage to take down a someone who poses a danger, without killing him. It's how they should do stuff. Someone walks around threatening people with a knife? Bring in a whole bunch of cops, and try to take him out without killing him.

He's not posing a danger to the public anymore once the cops have him surrounded. In that video, he's just a danger to himself and the cops, and they dealt with it properly.

[Montegriffo]

Norwegian and British knife/"stabby weapons law" is pretty much the same. And the intent was good, and I could agree with the laws if they were policed by the original intention. Like, you can take a screw driver from some drunkard who's been in fights previously, because it can be reasonably proved his intent of carrying that screw driver to that bar, would be to cause harm.

But both Norway and Britain is taking it too far in the implementation of the law, in that it doesn't take into account context or reason anymore. You can be fined and get your stuff confiscated if you can't prove a reason to carry it, while it should be the other way around. The cops should have to prove intent of causing harm, but they don't need to anymore.

I sometimes bring a multi-tool to work, because sometimes, it's useful. But this could in theory make me a criminal, if I ever met a cop on a power trip. And it has happened to other people here, even for carrying a multi tool on their person while driving a car. I don't need to use every day, sometimes it's just in the pocket without being used at all, and that could be interpreted as "no legitimate reason to carry". It's really a shame that someone with a clean criminal record, can't carry a knife in public. Because it's really just a tool, and everyone will need a knife from time to time, whatever they do for a living.

It just feels so stupid, the times a knife would be useful, but then realizing I left it at home, because there's the risk of some tool of the state to project his insecurities on me for it. Gangs and people with repeated history of violence on their criminal record? Sure, stop and frisk, and take their knives and other stabby objects away. But leave normal people alone.

Do you have any evidence that it is being applied to " normal " people?
I don't know anyone who has been stopped and searched for carrying a knife or multi tool but then I don't hang around with teenage gang members.
The guy in this case was known to the police and had a criminal record.

[Montegriffo]

That one's actually an example of a good policy, even though it looks clumsy. They manage to take down a someone who poses a danger, without killing him. It's how they should do stuff. Someone walks around threatening people with a knife? Bring in a whole bunch of cops, and try to take him out without killing him.

He's not posing a danger to the public anymore once the cops have him surrounded. In that video, he's just a danger to himself and the cops, and they dealt with it properly.

Yep. How many think he would still be alive if that was in America?

[C-Mag]

That one's actually an example of a good policy, even though it looks clumsy. They manage to take down a someone who poses a danger, without killing him. It's how they should do stuff. Someone walks around threatening people with a knife? Bring in a whole bunch of cops, and try to take him out without killing him.

He's not posing a danger to the public anymore once the cops have him surrounded. In that video, he's just a danger to himself and the cops, and they dealt with it properly.

Yep. How many think he would still be alive if that was in America?

In the US, the cops would have fired a thousand rounds and would have killed the knife guy with 3 hits. I just thought it was a funny video, and I like poking Monte. There a middle ground somewhere between the two that's better.

[Otern]

Do you have any evidence that it is being applied to " normal " people?
I don't know anyone who has been stopped and searched for carrying a knife or multi tool but then I don't hang around with teenage gang members.
The guy in this case was known to the police and had a criminal record.

Yes. The articles are all in Norwegian though.

I get that they confiscate knives and give fines to people with a violent criminal record. But it's being used to take regular people with clearly no violent intent too. All it takes is one cop having a bad day, and that knife you have in your car will get you a harsh fine.

[Montegriffo]

Do you have any evidence that it is being applied to " normal " people?
I don't know anyone who has been stopped and searched for carrying a knife or multi tool but then I don't hang around with teenage gang members.
The guy in this case was known to the police and had a criminal record.

Yes. The articles are all in Norwegian though.

I get that they confiscate knives and give fines to people with a violent criminal record. But it's being used to take regular people with clearly no violent intent too. All it takes is one cop having a bad day, and that knife you have in your car will get you a harsh fine.

Sounds like your police are taking this further than ours then.
This is being targeted at inner city youths and football hooligans here.
Not hearing any stories about members of the general public being stopped and searched for potato peelers.
It's funny to me that all the wing nuts are complaining about violent criminals being taken off the streets.
They'll all be wearing pussy hats and calling for open borders next.

[Otern]

Basically. If a person is carrying a knife, if it's for a "respectable purpose". According to the law.

But then what is a "respectable purpose"? It's really not defined in the law here. I'd say any purpose which do not break the law, is by itself respectable. And that's the original intent of the law too. And the authorities should have to prove that he's carrying it for "non-respectable purposes". Because innocent until proven guilty and all that.

As the law is enforced now though, the one carrying a knife needs to prove that it's for a "respectable purpose". He's guilty by default, unless he can prove otherwise. It's not how justice is supposed to work.