Where's an Environmentalist when you need one

[PartyOf5]

How can I say something found in nature, our nature, is beyond it? Was it not natural that humans got empathy and intelligence? Is it not natural that our intelligence leads to technology, which leads to a lack of need for things like meat to survive, and is it not natural that our empathy leads to ethical discourse?

Key word you used: survive.

In my limited time on this planet I want to do more than simply survive. The drive for more than simple survival is what got us all this technology. Eating meat helps me thrive, not just survive.

[Speaker to Animals]

The transition of the austrilipithicus to omnivore is what precipitated the rapid growth in brain size, especially the neocortex, and resulted in our rise to sapiance.

You need meat to maintain your body, and especially your brain. Veganism is terrible for you. If you went just vegetarian and supplemented that with dairy (assuming you possess the genetic adaptation to consume dairy), then you could sort of make it into a healthy diet, but I think you still will eventually get malnourished from B12 deficiency.

These vegans are fucking delusional. They are immaciated, hair and teeth falling out, fucking endocrine systems shutting down, and they actually convince themselves they are super healthy. It's a mental illness; some kind of eating disorder.

You know how fat people do not see the full extent of their problem? They think they need to lose like twenty pounds when, in reality, it is probably more like fifty plus pounds. They cannot see how bad it is. Vegans are like that but far worse, since they cannot even see that there is a problem in the first place.

[Hastur]

I’ll just let one of my favorite Jews do the talking for a bit.

[JohnDonne]

Do you disagree?
Do you contend that to be vegan is a natural homo sapiens state?

How can I say something found in nature, our nature, is beyond it? Was it not natural that humans got empathy and intelligence? Is it not natural that our intelligence leads to technology, which leads to a lack of need for things like meat to survive, and is it not natural that our empathy leads to ethical discourse?

Do you live in a human civilization with roads, factories, internal combustion engines, and supply chains from farm to table set up? Do you run your A/C? Do you use plastics and styrofoam in anyway? Do you have children? Do you live in a way that is outside of basic survival? If you answered yes to any of those things, then guess what? You are responsible for the mass die off of animals that you bemoan. Animals are killed by hunters and factory farms. They are also killed when we take land and the resources they need to survive and use it to live on, work on, and debate on an internet forum. There is no getting around this. Additionally, if we decide that we won't eat meat or hunt a certain animal, then it will grow in the wild until a plague or another species competes and kills it. There is no getting around this either.

I would take vegans far more seriously if they acknowledged this fact and admitted that they are as much a problem as the omnivore sapiens they rail against. You can't have it both ways. Either you acknowledge that we are apex predators at the top of the food chain who do affect our environment and eat and kill other animals, or you live in such a way that utterly minimizes your impact, effectively lowering yourself to their level on the food chain. Giving up meat is great. Really want to save animals? Live in a tent in the woods without electricity and plumbing, and don't farm in any way shape or form. because that takes natural animal habitat and displaces them. Just pick fruits and mushrooms you find on the ground. Also, don't reproduce, because more children equals more farmland needed and more lost habitat. You are killing animals, but your cognitive gymanistics are blinding you to this fact.

This is simply the futility fallacy combined with the nirvana fallacy.

Veganism does make a positive difference and you making up some pie in the sky ascetic alternative that will never be adopted by reasonable people doesn’t change that fact.

[PartyOf5]

Veganism does make a positive difference and you making up some pie in the sky ascetic alternative that will never be adopted by reasonable people doesn’t change that fact.

This is what I pictured when reading this.

[JohnDonne]

Best argument against vaganism is physiological.

Gorillas are pretty much vegetarians, and have a massive gut, in order to get enough nutrients from plants - as do every other herbivore. We do not.

Herbivores all have flat teeth, except for pandas - and we aren’t going to survive on bamboo. We do not.

We require more calories for the oversized brains than any other animal - 20% of our metabolic energy. Not possible with raw plants.

Now we can get around all this by cooking the plants and taking supplements. But it’s simply not what we are built for. It’s not our ‘most natural diet’.

In addition, and most importantly, we cannot pretend to know everything about how our bodies work, other than that they need variety in the diet. There could be endless pitfalls to health associated with a more manipulated diet, that we don’t know about yet. Best to keep it as close as possible to the norm.

Seems like you’re making an appeal to nature, which is unsound.

A descriptive statement of physiology does not translate to an argument for or against eating meat on its own. It’s the same as responding to the question whether we should punch each other with “I have fists.”

A majority of studies already demonstrate the superior health benefits of veganism, so it seems whatever dubious meaning “natural” holds, adhering to it is not necessarily in our interests. Think of the same argument being used to claim that we are not “meant” to take penicillin.

Though of course nature has no will so one cannot go against it or adhere to it in reality.

Btw orangutans have canines just like us, but they’re fruititarians.

[JohnDonne]

Do you disagree?
Do you contend that to be vegan is a natural homo sapiens state?

How can I say something found in nature, our nature, is beyond it? Was it not natural that humans got empathy and intelligence? Is it not natural that our intelligence leads to technology, which leads to a lack of need for things like meat to survive, and is it not natural that our empathy leads to ethical discourse?

Monsanto is natural then.

If Monsanto isn’t “Natural” it’s merely in the marketing term sense. As has been pointed out, declaring anything natural or otherwise is essentially meaningless.

[JohnDonne]

How can I say something found in nature, our nature, is beyond it? Was it not natural that humans got empathy and intelligence? Is it not natural that our intelligence leads to technology, which leads to a lack of need for things like meat to survive, and is it not natural that our empathy leads to ethical discourse?

Key word you used: survive.

In my limited time on this planet I want to do more than simply survive. The drive for more than simple survival is what got us all this technology. Eating meat helps me thrive, not just survive.

Sure, and it’s been shown that the human body can thrive on a vegan diet.

[JohnDonne]

The transition of the austrilipithicus to omnivore is what precipitated the rapid growth in brain size, especially the neocortex, and resulted in our rise to sapiance.

You need meat to maintain your body, and especially your brain. Veganism is terrible for you. If you went just vegetarian and supplemented that with dairy (assuming you possess the genetic adaptation to consume dairy), then you could sort of make it into a healthy diet, but I think you still will eventually get malnourished from B12 deficiency.

These vegans are fucking delusional. They are immaciated, hair and teeth falling out, fucking endocrine systems shutting down, and they actually convince themselves they are super healthy. It's a mental illness; some kind of eating disorder.

You know how fat people do not see the full extent of their problem? They think they need to lose like twenty pounds when, in reality, it is probably more like fifty plus pounds. They cannot see how bad it is. Vegans are like that but far worse, since they cannot even see that there is a problem in the first place.

Sure, it might be that meat helped our brains get bigger at some stage in evolution, that says nothing about whether we ought to eat meat now.

The rest of your post is just embarrassingly ill-informed. It’s like you typed “vegan + bad” into google, read some trash article headlines and just copy/pasted them here.

[Speaker to Animals]

> What the fuck, man?? You can't feed the lions nothing but wheat grass! This is animal abuse. Lions are carnivores for fuck sake.

>> sounds like an appeal to nature to me. You cannot argue that we ought to feed lions meat just because they evolved that way. Stop being Hitler.