THE ERA OF TRUMP

[DBTrek]

Look at when the certifications come from, Microsoft, Cisco, google, you name it it’s out there. Who makes money off of those certifications? It’s not the people taking the certifications I could tell you that, yes it might increase your pay by a few thousand dollars but in reality you are wasting your time getting the certifications to prove he could do a job you’ve already been doing for how long? . . .

I had my A+, MCSC, as well as many other certifications . . .

Dr. Duplicity, WTF is this you're saying now?

So, not only do you *have* certifications, but you agree they boost your income by thousands. Well, that's a far cry from being "fucking useless" wouldn't you say?

My pay went from $50,000, to $75,000 all because the H1B visa people were dropping the rate of what I should’ve gotten.

This a typo? Because it makes it sound like you got a huge pay increase from H1B visa workers being imported.

Anyway, it seems the nay-sayers have seen the light and (intentionally or otherwise) validated the acquisition of certifications as a net benefit to job applicants. Nobody ever claimed that a cert trumped 20-years of verified industry experience, so I'm not going to chase those shifting goal posts. I'm simply standing on my initial assertion that certs are valuable to job seekers, and they're not all "useless paper" - any more than the community college Associate degrees held by their detractors are. Both can give a job candidate the tiny edge they need to skate past resume filters or distinguish themselves from competition which looks nearly identical on paper.

People who approach certs wisely can leverage them into entirely new careers. Cert-hounds who simply acquire as many certs as possible willy-nilly will have problems convincing employers that they're anything but champions on paper.
/shrug

The effectiveness of certifications, like all tools, depends entirely on how you use them.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I didn’t have you picked out as an advocate for Big State Certification.. also, not sure what kind of “achievement” it is to opt into 4 years of irrelevant, expensive schooling vs 2, but regardless....

Consider a kid that went to extra school vs working in The IT field for 2 years. Who’s more valuable to your company?

Techs have a different answer from corporates. Which one do you believe?

I also shouldn't be surprised that the AS-degree folks think certs are awarded by "Big State".

So in summation:
1) Our "self-taught" geniuses were actually taught by community colleges, not themselves - but they're still ok pissing on everyone elses educations.
2) They don't know that most IT certifications are industry-based, not government based.
3) They know the value of having credentials that pass through HR filters, but can't connect this knowledge in any meaningful way with the certifications that provide those credentials.

I was referring to the “certification” of a higher degree. Yes, industry certs are valuable.

[Speaker to Animals]

Not in engineering.

[DBTrek]

I was referring to the “certification” of a higher degree. Yes, industry certs are valuable.

Ahhhh, of course. How did I miss that. Here I thought in the conversation about professional certifications, your use of the word referred to actual job certs. I should have known that when you said "certification" what you actually meant was "any degree bigger than an AS".

Silly me.

For what it's worth, I would recommend certs and an AS over a four-year degree to almost anyone in the tech industry, at this point. Tech specialists can make great money with relatively small educational debt. Many people with four-year CS degress make average money, with monstrous debt.

Doesn't make college degrees useless, or AS/certs superior to all things. Just recognizing that a guy with a network AS and certs in cybersecurity, AI, or data anlysis can make as much or more than many CS graduates while carrying only a fraction of their debt load.

... and as noted by StA, engineering and other science-heavy professions are an exception. The odds of you making more than a guy with a PhD in Statistical Science and Artificial Intelligence by cobbling together different certifications is pretty much nil.

[Speaker to Animals]

But if you are in an engineer in one industry, but want to transition to software engineering in a different industry, those professional certification programs offered by various university graduate departments are a good plan. For instance, if you are an embedded systems software engineer in the wireless industry, and want to move to data analysis type software engineering in the financial industry, that program DB studies in is a solid foundation to get there.

In engineering, they are mainly interested in your skills and experience. Those cert programs are looked at as a kind of experience.

A cert that says you know Java, for example, is retarded. You are expected to figure that type of shit out on your own.

[Hastur]

In my experience an engineer with a lot of certs is just someone who had problems finding jobs and needed to fill his time.
But I'm just a cynical old former consultant.

[Zlaxer]

In my experience an engineer with a lot of certs is just someone who had problems finding jobs and needed to fill his time.
But I'm just a cynical old former consultant.

Or one who's afraid of being let go due to a bean counter "hired consultant" who tells the Board that they need to shift work to cheaper foreign Engineers...

[The Conservative]

Look at when the certifications come from, Microsoft, Cisco, google, you name it it’s out there. Who makes money off of those certifications? It’s not the people taking the certifications I could tell you that, yes it might increase your pay by a few thousand dollars but in reality you are wasting your time getting the certifications to prove he could do a job you’ve already been doing for how long? . . .

I had my A+, MCSC, as well as many other certifications . . .

Dr. Duplicity, WTF is this you're saying now?

So, not only do you *have* certifications, but you agree they boost your income by thousands. Well, that's a far cry from being "fucking useless" wouldn't you say?

My pay went from $50,000, to $75,000 all because the H1B visa people were dropping the rate of what I should’ve gotten.

This a typo? Because it makes it sound like you got a huge pay increase from H1B visa workers being imported.

Anyway, it seems the nay-sayers have seen the light and (intentionally or otherwise) validated the acquisition of certifications as a net benefit to job applicants. Nobody ever claimed that a cert trumped 20-years of verified industry experience, so I'm not going to chase those shifting goal posts. I'm simply standing on my initial assertion that certs are valuable to job seekers, and they're not all "useless paper" - any more than the community college Associate degrees held by their detractors are. Both can give a job candidate the tiny edge they need to skate past resume filters or distinguish themselves from competition which looks nearly identical on paper.

People who approach certs wisely can leverage them into entirely new careers. Cert-hounds who simply acquire as many certs as possible willy-nilly will have problems convincing employers that they're anything but champions on paper.
/shrug

The effectiveness of certifications, like all tools, depends entirely on how you use them.

Had, don't have... but what I stated was that it only increased it by a modicum of value, not worth the total time and effort it took to receive them.

50K to 75K salary over 20 years for the same job as a Network Admin... that's not a huge jump, 75K in today's rate is 50K back in 1996 pay... my income may have increased in monetary value, but in reality, the income didn't jump at all. Inflation made it where 75K today is worth 50K in 1996 income. Seriously, how bad at math do you need to be to not figure that pay was decreased due to H1B visas.

And Certifications are worthless in the grand scheme of things, they only say you can pass a test, and they allow you entrance past the HR, which is fine, but in reality, that job will be back on the market in 6 months or less because they can't hack reality. I've seen it more times than not...

[The Conservative]

In my experience an engineer with a lot of certs is just someone who had problems finding jobs and needed to fill his time.
But I'm just a cynical old former consultant.

And you'd be right too.

[Zlaxer]

Look at when the certifications come from, Microsoft, Cisco, google, you name it it’s out there. Who makes money off of those certifications? It’s not the people taking the certifications I could tell you that, yes it might increase your pay by a few thousand dollars but in reality you are wasting your time getting the certifications to prove he could do a job you’ve already been doing for how long? . . .

I had my A+, MCSC, as well as many other certifications . . .

Dr. Duplicity, WTF is this you're saying now?

So, not only do you *have* certifications, but you agree they boost your income by thousands. Well, that's a far cry from being "fucking useless" wouldn't you say?

My pay went from $50,000, to $75,000 all because the H1B visa people were dropping the rate of what I should’ve gotten.

This a typo? Because it makes it sound like you got a huge pay increase from H1B visa workers being imported.

Anyway, it seems the nay-sayers have seen the light and (intentionally or otherwise) validated the acquisition of certifications as a net benefit to job applicants. Nobody ever claimed that a cert trumped 20-years of verified industry experience, so I'm not going to chase those shifting goal posts. I'm simply standing on my initial assertion that certs are valuable to job seekers, and they're not all "useless paper" - any more than the community college Associate degrees held by their detractors are. Both can give a job candidate the tiny edge they need to skate past resume filters or distinguish themselves from competition which looks nearly identical on paper.

People who approach certs wisely can leverage them into entirely new careers. Cert-hounds who simply acquire as many certs as possible willy-nilly will have problems convincing employers that they're anything but champions on paper.
/shrug

The effectiveness of certifications, like all tools, depends entirely on how you use them.

Had, don't have... but what I stated was that it only increased it by a modicum of value, not worth the total time and effort it took to receive them.

50K to 75K salary over 20 years for the same job as a Network Admin... that's not a huge jump, 75K in today's rate is 50K back in 1996 pay... my income may have increased in monetary value, but in reality, the income didn't jump at all. Inflation made it where 75K today is worth 50K in 1996 income. Seriously, how bad at math do you need to be to not figure that pay was decreased due to H1B visas.

And Certifications are worthless in the grand scheme of things, they only say you can pass a test, and they allow you entrance past the HR, which is fine, but in reality, that job will be back on the market in 6 months or less because they can't hack reality. I've seen it more times than not...

Why don't you grow some big boy pants and get a MS/CS or CE? I've looked - costs aren't too bad compared to pay.