THE ERA OF TRUMP

[The Conservative]

Since you won't check your attitude at least check your blood pressure. After that last post I'd say it's running a little high.

I'm not disagreeing with you on certifications and how real world work and self-learning beats getting a certification. My point was that most companies don't segregate IT/IS/MIS/IMS. They are all under one main department. The individual areas are called help desk, field services, BIDW, etc.. but they are all under the same IT/IS name.

Every time I cert my way into a significant pay increase I sure to shed a tear for those poor, poor, self-taught geniuses living paycheck to paycheck.

Lulz.

(Cert envy is the new college envy. Used to be a college degree was just a piece of paper someone bought that didn't mean shit. Now it's certs. Truth is, street-geniuses ain't all that smart, but they are hella loud on the internet).

I’m making six figures on an Associates and over 30 years of IT experience. Your example falls flat on its face.

[The Conservative]

I honestly don't care one way or the other if people choose to learn on their own or get a cert. Personally, I would choose someone with direct experience and no cert over someone with a cert and no experience, everything else being equal. I usually learn on the job over getting certs, but that's my personal choice. TC is the one calling anyone who doesn't see things his was as idiots and don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

I am saying that people with certifications are overrated. Hence the 1996-current India flood of H1B visa recipients that have the certifications.

Most are trained monkeys that know how to pass a test, but when you put them in the real world they buckle and melt.

Sorry, but the majority of certification requirements are only put there because HR wants keyword searches instead of looking at real qualifications.

[Montegriffo]

I’m making six figures on an Associates and over 30 years of IT experience.

Bank details or it never happened...

[PartyOf5]

Just because companies don’t differentiate the difference doesn’t they are right.

Whatever. It's being done in lots of companies, and you'd be laughed out of the building if you came in ranting about how they need to be separate and how the leadership are all idiots for lumping them together.

And just because they are under a single department, it doesn’t mean that everyone has to have the same skill set.

Did I say they had the same skill set? No, I did not. In fact, I specifically said there are areas broken out for Help Desk, PC tech, BIDW, etc..

[DBTrek]

I’m making six figures on an Associates and over 30 years of IT experience. Your example falls flat on its face.

Maybe you are and maybe you arent, but only a damn fool thinks an isolated example trumps aggregate data.

[PartyOf5]

I am saying that people with certifications are overrated. Hence the 1996-current India flood of H1B visa recipients that have the certifications.

Most are trained monkeys that know how to pass a test, but when you put them in the real world they buckle and melt.

Sorry, but the majority of certification requirements are only put there because HR wants keyword searches instead of looking at real qualifications.

I'll leave you and DBTrek to argue about that one. I'm not sold on certs for everything, but I'm not saying they are all useless.

[DBTrek]

Just because companies don’t differentiate the difference doesn’t they are right.

Whatever. It's being done in lots of companies, and you'd be laughed out of the building if you came in ranting about how they need to be separate and how the leadership are all idiots for lumping them together.

And just because they are under a single department, it doesn’t mean that everyone has to have the same skill set.

Did I say they had the same skill set? No, I did not. In fact, I specifically said there are areas broken out for Help Desk, PC tech, BIDW, etc..

The Conservative went from chronic unemployment to being the "director" of "Mac" technology at some no-name firm. He's been pontificating about "how it is" in technology ever since, as if he has a clue. Dude is an East Coast Yankee who landed a lucky gig that he's constantly trying to get himself fired from through unnecessary provocations and remaining willfully tone-deaf to the current cultural climate. He's certainly no authority on the state of IT.

/shrug

[SuburbanFarmer]

Database programmer (IS), self-taught, pushing 40, no major certs. Pushing 6 figures on an A.S. (Which is in Networking).

The key is to get past HR screeners and interview with the people actually doing the work. The corporates want certifications and degrees. The techs know better, and just want experience/learning ability/character.

TC is more or less correct.

[DBTrek]

Database programmer (IS), self-taught, pushing 40, no major certs. Pushing 6 figures on an A.S. (Which is in Networking).

The key is to get past HR screeners and interview with the people actually doing the work. The corporates want certifications and degrees. The techs know better, and just want experience/learning ability/character.

... and certs and degrees push you past the HR people more quickly than "I'm a self taught genius, trust me".

I suppose I should've foreseen that all of our "self-taught" geniuses are actually envious associate degree holders who have an educational chip on their shoulder. It's always the under-performers who want to rake everyone else across the coals over how useless their achievements are.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Database programmer (IS), self-taught, pushing 40, no major certs. Pushing 6 figures on an A.S. (Which is in Networking).

The key is to get past HR screeners and interview with the people actually doing the work. The corporates want certifications and degrees. The techs know better, and just want experience/learning ability/character.

... and certs and degrees push you past the HR people more quickly than "I'm a self taught genius, trust me".

I suppose I should've foreseen that all of our "self-taught" geniuses are actually envious associate degree holders who have an educational chip on their shoulder. It's always the under-performers who want to rake everyone else across the coals over how useless their achievements are.

I didn’t have you picked out as an advocate for Big State Certification.. also, not sure what kind of “achievement” it is to opt into 4 years of irrelevant, expensive schooling vs 2, but regardless....

Consider a kid that went to extra school vs working in The IT field for 2 years. Who’s more valuable to your company?

Techs have a different answer from corporates. Which one do you believe?