THE ERA OF TRUMP

[Smitty-48]

Well I know the liberals see him as a satanic villain, but I think Erik Prince has the right idea, just contract it out, let contractors take over, the small footprint contractor model

Bannon was really hot about this. But in the end it would have made Eric Prince a lot more richer. And not much else.

Thinking that they would have just contractors totally alone there with the local "taleban" and the dysfunctional Afghan Army? You see those contractors and SF guys would still need the air power. They would still need all the fucking intel backup. Still need back up in general.
Still need this and that from the armed forces. Or think that Third World contractors would do it? Yeah sure, give it Pakistanis to "solve" the thing.

Heck, Trump hasn't even visited Afghanistan. If replacing Health Care was just given to the Republicans in the Congress and then Trump basically didn't do much anything but sit and wait and then whine that nothing was passed, with Afghanistan he's even more off.

Perhaps Mattis and McMaster would have a view on how to do it, but what everything lacks is simply the political will and dedication to fight a war to win it. The whole Afghan war has been just a backburner for all purposes since the Taleban controlled Kabul fell and OBL made it to Pakistan.

The airpower, intel, all that, that's global, doesn't even have to be based in Afghanistan, and the contractors have better intel than the US military, the US military was retarded in Afghanistan, they just went around kicking up shit and pissing the locals off, they don't know shit, the contractors are all ex-SF, they're better at calling in airstrikes than anybody else, there haven't been many combat troops in Afghanistan for years, the entire mission is an advise and assist mission now, the combat mission failed a long time ago, the vast majority of troops there are service support, the contractors have already been operating for years without back up, so all that is a bunch of fallacious nonsense, ssu, seems to me.

Basically just more liberal Trumprage, even though this predates Trump and will persist long after him.

[Smitty-48]

There was an American Green Beret, Major Jim Gant, they called him the Lawrence of Arabia of Afghanistan, and he was literally living out in Eastern Afghanistan with the tribes, with his girlfriend, who was a reporter for the Washington Post, and the Taliban never took them out, every US military unit that went into that AO got hit and hit hard, prolly not even by the Taliban, they got hit by the tribes more likely, but Jim Gant walked around there with no body armor, nothing, but he never got hit, the Taliban never got to him.

Who got to him in the end? Big Army. They didn't like this Green Beret operating outside of their control, he was too good at it, when they sucked at it, so they had to get rid of him, so they ginned up a bunch o' phony baloney charges and accusations, and of course, the media all went for it, so this is how it goes with Big Army, and so long as Americans drink that kool-aid, nothing can save them from the Pentagon, but hey, not my problem, America can go back to Afghanistan with Big Army and kick up a bunch of shit and get lit up for it again, doesn't bother me either way.

[ssu]

The airpower, intel, all that, that's global, doesn't even have to be based in Afghanistan

...but the long tail has to be there. Period.

the US military was retarded in Afghanistan, they just went around kicking up shit and pissing the locals off, they don't know shit

So have SF / ex-SF hybrid. That's the fucking answer then, which could work, I agree. But withdraw the country and "hand it" Erik Prince? Nah. It wouldn't happen, but Prince would surely make the buck.

Handing Afghanistan to JSOC is a better idea.

The real reason contractors are used is to get the number of US soldiers down. That's it. If one wants more Special Forces, then enlarge them. I guess the salary of the Special Forces as government employees is lower than when the same people are ex-SF working for a Company that's there to make a profit.

And if you want to fight, if you want to be there, then take it as a real war. Have true political dedication and will to win. If Trump wants to get the view for the guys really doing the stuff, have Trump go to Afghanistan and mingle with the Special Forces. Great chance for the US to show it's exceptionality if it wins Afghanistan, as the Soviet Union and Great Britain were kicked in the ass there.

Mattis and McMaster may have good ideas what to do with Afghanistan, but what simply is lacking is the political dedication to fight the war. And this isn't just Trump's fault, Obama was a perfect example of this. In a way, the US armed forces are so good that the politicians back in Washington can simply forget that they are fighting a war in Afghanistan. Hence the end result is the totally miserable strategy that the US now has: "Don't lose Afghanistan and minimize US casualties".

[Smitty-48]

No, ssu, you're naive, as soon as the Pentagon is running the operation on the ground it turns to shit, all JSOC does is piss the Afghans off and make more friction for America, you don't even understand the difference between JSOC and SF, and neither does the Pentagon, and that's the whole problem, which, turning it over to the Pentagon, will just be more of the same.

[Smitty-48]

The Pentagon should just be removed completely from the equation, the whole thing should be turned over to the CIA Directorate of Operations and contract Green Berets, like it was back in the 1980's, and if they need an airforce, Air America, with the Air Tractors for CAS, don't need no Pentagon and their B-52's, that's overkill.

[ssu]

There was an American Green Beret, Major Jim Gant, they called him the Lawrence of Arabia of Afghanistan, and he was literally living out in Eastern Afghanistan with the tribes, with his girlfriend, who was a reporter for the Washington Post, and the Taliban never took them out, every US military unit that went into that AO got hit and hit hard, prolly not even by the Taliban, they got hit by the tribes more likely, but Jim Gant walked around there with no body armor, nothing, but he never got hit, the Taliban never got to him.

So hand it to the Special Forces. Or simply have a strategy and an agenda that the Pashtuns would love.

But the real thing is that simply the tribes themselves never have been the point here. Because if you are going to live with some tribe, then you really have to have the agenda of that tribe on your mind. Perhaps that's too much "nation building". Because isn't the purposed just to get the "bad guys", the "terrorists". Fuck everything else. And of course: "To be in Afghanistan in order it not to be used again as terrorist base". When you have that as your main objective, it's no wonder people join the Taleban (or whatever it is now). You simply have to have some political goal that makes the Pashtuns favour the government.

No, ssu, you're naive, as soon as the Pentagon is running the operation on the ground it turns to shit, all JSOC does is piss the Afghans off and make more friction for America, you don't even understand the difference between JSOC and SF, and neither does the Pentagon, and that's the whole problem, which, turning it over to the Pentagon, will just be more of the same.

Likely they will do much of the same.

Yet this idea of Eric Prince solving everything is extremely naive too. Because you aren't getting out of Afghanistan. Then a "viceroy"? Really? Have 5500 contractors to the Afghan National Army and a "viceroy" to oversee the whole endeavour. How long do you think it would take for the Afghan leadership to feel that they were abandoned By the US? And how long it would take that Prince would get into similar trouble as he did in Iraq? Somehow conveniently it's forgotten that Prince was kicked out of Iraq. That his Company had to change it's name because of bad publicity. Yeah sure, accuse all the bleeding heart liberals of it, but you goddam have to realize that those bleeding heart liberals will be there to question everything. Some Prince taking care of Afghanistan is political a disasterous move. Above all, the idea that some Eric Prince holds the answer to how Afghanistan is pacified is absurd.

And finally, what is the main agenda, the main selling point of Prince's "Strategic Economy of Force"? Minimize US Casualty risk. That's the Basic punchline.

So the idea of Special Forces is good. Big Army, Infantry that lives in it's bases where they have cleaners and McDonalds making few excursions outside their perimeter isn't going to work either. The idea of a war that needs a political solution. The war to be given out to Private contractors is simply disasterous.

The Pentagon should just be removed completely from the equation, the whole thing should be turned over to the CIA Directorate of Operations and contract Green Berets, like it was back in the 1980's, and if they need an airforce, Air America, with the Air Tractors for CAS, don't need no Pentagon and their B-52's, that's overkill.

Now you are talking! Yep, that would be the way. There's a start!

Actually, the whole thing of finding OBL should have been given just to the FBI, which could have asked help from other parts of the government (CIA etc) in their quest of the 9/11 terrorist ring. As they done with uh... the previous bombing of the Twin Towers. And then have had an US President that could have contained the urge of Americans to invade a country in response of a terrorist attack.

[Smitty-48]

Now you are talking! Yep, that would be the way..

But that's all the contractor model is, the CIA just signs people to contracts, they might have a few NOC's, maybe a SAD team, but for most of their boots on the ground, they would just have a private contracting company which would hire ex-Green Berets.

The CIA are civilians, once you go CIA, you are contracting by default, which, for something like this, is the way to go, don't need the military for this, this is what the CIA is for, and for boots on the ground, the CIA contractor army is sustainable, not just logistically, but politically as well.

If the liberal media cries about it, you just say "classified, fuck off". Out of sight out of mind, which, is really what the Americans want, once there are no uniformed military forces there, they won't pay any mind to it at all, once they don't pay any mind to it; didn't happen.

The only issue in Afghanistan is liberal and lolberg cry blubbering, the way to get around that, is just make it so black and small footprint, that nobody fuckin' cares. If liberals and lolbergs are gonna screech when they hear "contractors", fine, don't even call it that, just do it anyways and don't say anything at all.

How many shadow wars is America running in the world right now? Dozens. How many make the news? Almost none. So? Nobody fuckin' cares. And so? Problem solved.

[Smitty-48]

90% of the issues with the GWOT, is just poltical grandstanding, liberals and lolbergs get up on their soapboxes and cry blubber as if anybody gives a shit about Afghanistan, or Iraq, or any of these places, and they're only doing it to score points in the domestic political bunfight, they have no strategy, they have no alternative, they just say withdraw back to America and cede the world to someone else, but, King Dollah is not actually gonna do that, King Dollah is going to have to just remain in a containment mode, until such time as these fringe groups are rendered moot by the passage of time itself, but in the meantime, if you don't want to hear from the grandstanders about it, just take away the grandstand, which is the Pentagon, people only give a shit about the uniformed troops, once they're out of there, nobody fuckin cares anymore and the liberals and lolbergs will just be pissin' in the wind about it.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

I feel like we have been down this whole - operators training and arming the Afghans in a shadow war - rabbit hole before for some reason.

[Smitty-48]

Yet this idea of Eric Prince solving everything is extremely naive too. Because you aren't getting out of Afghanistan. Then a "viceroy"? Really? Have 5500 contractors to the Afghan National Army and a "viceroy" to oversee the whole endeavour. How long do you think it would take for the Afghan leadership to feel that they were abandoned By the US? And how long it would take that Prince would get into similar trouble as he did in Iraq? Somehow conveniently it's forgotten that Prince was kicked out of Iraq. That his Company had to change it's name because of bad publicity. Yeah sure, accuse all the bleeding heart liberals of it, but you goddam have to realize that those bleeding heart liberals will be there to question everything. Some Prince taking care of Afghanistan is political a disasterous move. Above all, the idea that some Eric Prince holds the answer to how Afghanistan is pacified is absurd.

Prince knows that it won't be pacified, that's the whole point, there is no pacified, at least not for decades, it's a failed state and it ain't gonna unfail itself anytime soon, and America can't hand it back, because there's nobody to hand it back to, and it will become a terrorist safe haven is somebody is not in their disrupting them, and since the Americans absolutely refuse to join the Russians in just using the Taliban as proxies, then the Americans will have to have their own proxies, to disrupt terrorists in the coutryside, you need to work with the tribes, and quite frankly, 5500 is more than enough, because you don't even want to send large numbers of foreigners into their territory, they won't accept them, you'll end up fighting them instead of the Taliban, so you only need a small number of guys to work the proxies in Afghanistan anyways.

And if the liberals cry blubber about it, you just keep changing the company name, whatever, fuck the liberals, they ain't gonna do anything about it, Obama had his chance and he did jack shit about it.