THE ERA OF TRUMP

[C-Mag]

[TheReal_ND]

[Okeefenokee]

They're both fucking socialism. Stop trying to act like Hitler was a right wing, capitalist, liberty defending, democratically minded, republican.

I am not "acting like Hitler was a right-wing capitalist, liberty defending, yada yada... republican". Who the fuck even thinks that? Seriously. What sort of moronic left-right-perspective is that even supposed to be a parody of?

Hitler was a totalitarian, liberty hating, socialist, just like all the rest of the mass murderers that ideology has produced. The reason his quotes were used in that video is because his message was the same as the one Sanders and the rest spread today. The reason you don't like it being included is because you're holding out hope that people don't wake up to the fact that Hitler, the most hated of the 20th dictators, despite having one of the lowest kill counts, was just another mass murdering socialist.

We've debated it here plenty of times. Leftists don't think it's fair that they have to claim Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and all the others, so they try to pretend that Hitler wasn't just another murdering socialist like the rest. They want people on the right to claim Hitler so it's not so ridiculously uneven, but that ain't happening.

He's yours. Stop pretending like he's not.

[Speaker to Animals]

People need to wake up to the nature of what the "left" actually is. It's anti-civilization. It's the political manifestation of psychological dysfunction that is totally incompatible with civilization.

Or put another way, in order for civilization to emerge, a group of people need to develop a certain set of behaviors and outlooks that they share in common in order to bring that civilization into existence. It's not just language, laws, and cultural forms. It's morals, metaphysics, values, and even a common worldview. What we now call the "left" is just what happens when a lot of people lose those commonalities. They despise their own civilization and want to destroy it. They usually talk a good game about "progressing" the culture or transforming/evolving it into something more utopian, but history bears out the fundamental truth that they only pull humanity back towards barbarism.

It's a rejection of morals, values, and even human nature.


Or put even another way: it's possible for a culture to split into two or more groups that go into conflict and then go their own way. This is the history of Europe, really. Yet what the left actually is does not constitute some new culture trying to break out, but rather a kind of anti-culture. There's no culture there. Our contemporary "left" in the West has no culture. They define themselves by their opposition to culture, civilization, and human nature. This is something different from mere cultural differences and quite dangerous.

[BjornP]

They're both fucking socialism. Stop trying to act like Hitler was a right wing, capitalist, liberty defending, democratically minded, republican.

I am not "acting like Hitler was a right-wing capitalist, liberty defending, yada yada... republican". Who the fuck even thinks that? Seriously. What sort of moronic left-right-perspective is that even supposed to be a parody of?

Hitler was a totalitarian, liberty hating, socialist, just like all the rest of the mass murderers that ideology has produced. The reason his quotes were used in that video is because his message was the same as the one Sanders and the rest spread today. The reason you don't like it being included is because you're holding out hope that people don't wake up to the fact that Hitler, the most hated of the 20th dictators, despite having one of the lowest kill counts, was just another mass murdering socialist.

We've debated it here plenty of times. Leftists don't think it's fair that they have to claim Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and all the others, so they try to pretend that Hitler wasn't just another murdering socialist like the rest. They want people on the right to claim Hitler so it's not so ridiculously uneven, but that ain't happening.

He's yours. Stop pretending like he's not.

"Ours".... You're being the poster boy for that whole post-modern "words mean whatever I feel they mean" sentiment. If a leftist is not a Socialist or Communist, but simply a Liberal, I don't see why a rational-thinking person would expect them to "claim" Hitler as "their own", or Stalin for that matter. I vote Social Democrat, but I can no more "claim" Stalin as "my guy", than I expect even nationalistic DDP-voting Dane to claim Hitler as "his". Expecting that someone is not a "real" Conservative/Socialist/Liberal/whatever unless they embrace every fringe, crazy, extreme shit that someone on "their side" has proposed at some point in history, is a completely asinine way of thinking about politics. It demeans you intellectually, it demeans your political culture, it demeans your nation.

Thinking that because you want to limit immigration that that means you're imposing death camps next, or that because you want to increase taxation and build a stronger welfare state that that means you're practically on your way to a gulag, is not rational. It's hyper-emotional, argument-from-hysteria-nonsense. Fuck that simple-minded, dumbed down guilt by association bullshit that is US politics. Fuck your leftists for imposing it on you, but you're fucking over yourself for adopting the same moronic way of thinking. Are they that worthy of emulation, Okee?

Hitler was indeed a totalitarian, liberty hating collectivist... Since he didn't care about that whole class struggle thing, he ain't a Socialist. That's what at the core of Socialism. That there is an upper class that exploits the working classes. Nazis are perfectly cool with that. His collectivism was one based in ethnicity and race, not in class. He didn't hate the rich, he didn't call for the total nationalization of all industry, he didn't support an international uprising of the proletariat. Logically does not make him a Socialist.

Do you understand what I'm trying to tell you, yet?

You. Don't. Have. To. "Claim". Hitler. Either.

Yeah... I know.... Nazis are Nazis. Conservatism is Conservatism and there are many schools of Conservatism. Socialism is Socialism and there are many schools of Socialism. Liberalism is Liberalism and there are many schools of Liberalism. Stop thinkling like them, Okee. You don't have to "claim" shit. It's a retarded way of thinking, a retarded expectation, a retarded and irrational way to argue. That one of your leftists FEEL that you're such a total "nazi", does not make you one. I get that you can get angry and want to "get back at them", use their own tactics and shit. But their tactics are....shit. Their way of thinking, their way of making associations that demonize you simply because they feel that you are an evil, racist whatever. Why copy their way of rationalizing?

[TheReal_ND]

They are probably just conflating his anti capitalist rhetoric during the revolution with Bernie's rhetoric. I mean it's not entirely incorrect to draw parallels between National Socialism and Gender Fluid Socialism but it's not entirely correct either.

[Okeefenokee]

Not all socialism is Marxism. Marxism was about class struggle, on lines of wealth. Socialism is just a bigger tent under which you'll find all the different flavors, but the key ingredient is the idea that the individual is insignificant when compared with the collective.

Under Marxism, the collective is the workers and they are in a struggle against the owners.

Under German Fascism, the collective is Germany, and it is in a struggle against non-German, non-aryans, etc.

But in both cases, it's collective first, individual second, or third or fourth. The individual doesn't really matter. That's why you can kill so many of them.

The most significant difference between the ideologies of Fascists and Communists that I see is that Fascists believe in nations, and Communists don't. Other than that, the other differences are just the result of different places, and different times.

[TheReal_ND]

You have to remember that during the revolution Hitler had coopted a socialist party to begin with. Communism and socialism were what a lot of people were willing to fight for so Hitler used it to form his party, National Socialism. A lot of his early speeches would mirror something Bernie would say. His regime was a collectivist regime, and a socialist one. He was however diametrically opposed to Marxism, the sickness of the Weimar Republic and the particular type of people that pushed the degeneracy. The same ones doing it now.

Anyway being an individualist is good. But you're going to lose.

[BjornP]

They are probably just conflating his anti capitalist rhetoric during the revolution with Bernie's rhetoric. I mean it's not entirely incorrect to draw parallels between National Socialism and Gender Fluid Socialism but it's not entirely correct either.

That's what it looked like in the vid to me, too. I imagine they either never heard of any right-wing criticisms of capitalism, or think it hurts their case if they acknowledged as much. Combined with the fact that NS has "Socialism" in its name, it is an easy but non-factual based way to make a case against Socialism. Here's a nice reference to some intellectuals skeptic of both Capitalism and Socialism:

http://theweek.com/articles/448461/cons ... capitalism

...and again, Okee... No, this does not mean that conservatism is Nazism, or that that is the point of the article or my point in posting it.

[BjornP]

Not all socialism is Marxism. Marxism was about class struggle, on lines of wealth. Socialism is just a bigger tent under which you'll find all the different flavors, but the key ingredient is the idea that the individual is insignificant when compared with the collective.

That's the definition of collectivism, Okee. That's the umbrella term for ideologies and philosophies where the collective is seen as more important than the individual.

Under Marxism, the collective is the workers and they are in a struggle against the owners.

Under German Fascism, the collective is Germany, and it is in a struggle against non-German, non-aryans, etc.

But in both cases, it's collective first, individual second, or third or fourth. The individual doesn't really matter. That's why you can kill so many of them.

The most significant difference between the ideologies of Fascists and Communists that I see is that Fascists believe in nations, and Communists don't. Other than that, the other differences are just the result of different places, and different times.

Again, that's the definition of collectivism. (Left-wing) Anarchism, such as Syndicalism (those who believed in forming a stateless society through a revolution started by general union strikes) also believed in class struggle, and there are pre-Marx Socialist movements that spoke up about class conflict as well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartism