Socialism

[Martin Hash]

Flat Tax is the idea that rich people pay too much taxes, and the poor don’t pay enough.

Well when the poor effectively pay 0, is that enough?

So, who makes up what the rich don’t pay? (And people wonder about the vanishing Middle Class.)

[Martin Hash]

Flat Tax is the idea that rich people pay too much taxes, and the poor don’t pay enough.

Flat Taxes redistribute wealth in the wrong direction. Rich people have compounding gains, about 7% on average. For every dollar put into circulation, the rich are going to take 7%. The vast majority of people have no savings (outside retirement) so when they put a dollar into circulation through taxation, 7% go to the rich.

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[Speaker to Animals]

The problem is equating capitalism and socialism as opposing ideologies. Socialism is a consequence of capitalism run amok, which is what capitalism will do if left to itself.

Think of it like a handstand. Capitalism is your explosive kicking force that launches your legs into the air. Socialism/communism/etc are what happen when your legs fly past your centerline and you crash to the floor.

Progressive taxation is akin to part of your stabilizer and balance muscular system that makes it possible for you to slide into that sweet spot and hold the handstand.

Capitalism is not the handstand but the initial force that gets you up there, but by itself will result in you crashing (communism or collapse). Don't confuse the forces with the goal.

[brewster]

Hey, your not promised shit in this world BrewBro. Lifes not fucking fair, we should strive for fairness of opportunity in our society, but fairness of outcome can get Fucked.

I understand the philosophy perfectly. In fact I'm more sympathetic than you think. But I also try to imagine what that nation would look like. Do you? Can you?

The Venezuelans and the Soviets were done in by far more than simply socialist policies. Both were deeply corrupt and dysfunctional, unlike Socialist Northern Europe.

[Zlaxer]

Hey, your not promised shit in this world BrewBro. Lifes not fucking fair, we should strive for fairness of opportunity in our society, but fairness of outcome can get Fucked.

I understand the philosophy perfectly. In fact I'm more sympathetic than you think. But I also try to imagine what that nation would look like. Do you? Can you?

The Venezuelans and the Soviets were done in by far more than simply socialist policies. Both were deeply corrupt and dysfunctional, unlike Socialist Northern Europe.

You realize Northern Europe has very unique demographics? And that they're systems are currently failing to to massive immigration right? And if you want to live in such a social/economic system, why do you try to force your choice on me instead of moving to Northern Europe?

[C-Mag]

Hey, your not promised shit in this world BrewBro. Lifes not fucking fair, we should strive for fairness of opportunity in our society, but fairness of outcome can get Fucked.

I understand the philosophy perfectly. In fact I'm more sympathetic than you think. But I also try to imagine what that nation would look like. Do you? Can you?

Families would rely on each other more
People would understand there is a meager safety net
It would be more of a dog eat dog world
We'd likely have a more disciplined society over all

No system is perfect, but that is more sustainable. It's not that you can't provide stuff for people, it's that you can't provide stuff for people in perpetuity. Any society can provide a social net for probably 1-3 generations, but eventually the system implodes.

I'm not against short term help to get people up and running. But generational welfare fucks us all.

[C-Mag]

Hey, your not promised shit in this world BrewBro. Lifes not fucking fair, we should strive for fairness of opportunity in our society, but fairness of outcome can get Fucked.

I understand the philosophy perfectly. In fact I'm more sympathetic than you think. But I also try to imagine what that nation would look like. Do you? Can you?

The Venezuelans and the Soviets were done in by far more than simply socialist policies. Both were deeply corrupt and dysfunctional, unlike Socialist Northern Europe.

You realize Northern Europe has very unique demographics? And that they're systems are currently failing to to massive immigration right? And if you want to live in such a social/economic system, why do you try to force your choice on me instead of moving to Northern Europe?

And the system is basically supported by huge off shore oil revenues.

[Zlaxer]

Brewster just wants gibs....and wants you to pay for it because Brewster is entitled to you being Brewster's slave.

Brewster doesn't care if socialism destroys the middle class...It's far more important to force equality to everyone....regardless of their ability...or their past decisions...

[C-Mag]

Flat Tax is the idea that rich people pay too much taxes, and the poor don’t pay enough.

Flat Taxes redistribute wealth in the wrong direction. Rich people have compounding gains, about 7% on average. For every dollar put into circulation, the rich are going to take 7%. The vast majority of people have no savings (outside retirement) so when they put a dollar into circulation through taxation, 7% go to the rich.

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Never heard that before...………… thanks for the new info to consider.

One of the principles I think any tax system should have is to get rid of deductions. Even welfare recipients should be taxed.

[DBTrek]

Maybe comfort breeds laziness. Capitalism leads to prosperity, which leads capitalist societies to luxury and laziness. Laziness, under a democratic system, offers the lazy a chance to seize the fruits of other’s labor through voting. There’s your self-devouring cycle.

Capitalism -> prosperity -> laziness -> socialism (whereby the lazy can seize the assets of others rather than earning them)