Common Sense 322 - Betting on Long Shots

[Smitty-48]

His best work is the Wrath of the Khans series. If you can’t get into that, fair enough. But it’s by far the most popular.

can you tell me what Dan's point was ?

what was his historical point as to the Mongols ?

[DrYouth]

what was his historical point as to the Mongols ?

Seemed to me like he was trying to make peace between two versions of the Mongols.

Mongols as blood thirsty villains.

And the cleaned up narrative of Mongols as creating "pax mongolia" and improving commerce and trade.
You know... like "they weren't so bad"

As the classic peacemaker he is - he wanted to create a consensus story.

Mongols were violent, ruthless and impressive.... but human...
And he likes to add a lot of Star Trek and Planet of the Apes references for the nerds.

[Smitty-48]

I don't find the Mongols to be historically impressive

they were bandit horseman who ruled an empty ocean of grass

they didn't build anything, they didn't build a civilization

they temporarily occupied some cities, but in the end could not run them

then they were rendered totally irrelevant when the Europeans invented better sailing ships and simply sailed around them

the impressive empires are Europe & China, the Mongols were basically like the Taliban hanging out in between

[Smitty-48]

Star Trek and Planet of the Apes references for the nerds.

that's what he should call it then

because history is about extrapolating lessons

history is about making a point which is relevant to our lives now

and it shouldn't take five hours to make that point, should be able to do it in a paragraph

[DBTrek]

I find establishing the largest land empire in history, in one lifetime, fairly impressive.
I mean, it's probably going to outstrip any of my personal achievements - so I can't dunk on it.

[Smitty-48]

where is the great Mongol empire ?

it's an empire of grass, it's an empty steppe now as it was then

I would actually submit that there is no such thing as a land empire

all empires are seapowers, you can only achieve an empire by the sea

it's a Roman word, derived from Imperator, referring to the Roman naval conquest of the Mediterranean

the Roman republic defeated the dominant seapower, Carthage, at which point Rome became the first empire

[DBTrek]

where is the great Mongol empire ?

it's an empire of grass, it's an empty steppe now as it was then

"Just grass".
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Smitty-48]

where is the great Mongol empire ?

it's an empire of grass, it's an empty steppe now as it was then

"Just grass".
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

they didn't build anything

the Chinese built everything

the Mongols didn't want to be assimilated, so they kept themselves separate from the Chinese

when the great Khan took the Forbidden City, he didn't even live in the palace

they lived in their tents in the back , behind the palace

it's not a empire, it was a bunch of bandits living off other empires as parasites

[DBTrek]

Hungary to Japan .... aka, a flat plain of grass that one could easily roll a push-mower across.
"Just grass".

Dude, the Mongol's aren't revered as civilization builders.
They're revered as military conquerors.
And as such, they conquered better than anyone, up until the British empire some seven hundred years later.

Not bad.

[Smitty-48]

military conquest does not an empire make

the Taliban just conquested the steppe that the Mongols owned, but there's nothing there, because the Mongols left no legacy