Speaking of trashing the recently deceased ...

[DBTrek]

Amazon already moves goods fine without unions. Not seeing unions playing a critical role there. Non-unionized workers can do everything unionized ones can, except where unions have forbidden them to.

[DBTrek]

To be clear, my opinions against private unions isn’t nearly as entrenched as my opinion against public ones. I concede that workers should be free to organize against employers if they want. They should not, however, be able to lock competition out of the workforce.

... nonetheless, I’m simply not convinced that even private unions serve any greater purpose than to benefit themselves and their membership at the cost of business and non-unionized labor. This makes them rather inefficient, self-obsessed, net loss (for everyone but members) entities within the economy.

[Kath]

Unions did the country a solid when they first started. Got workers out of some seriously difficult times. Those days are gone, though - from my POV, Unions protect lazy and incompetent workers and hold back quality workers.

[Speaker to Animals]

Amazon already moves goods fine without unions. Not seeing unions playing a critical role there. Non-unionized workers can do everything unionized ones can, except where unions have forbidden them to.

They also enslave workers. Amazon workers want to unionize so that Amazon can no longer take their time without compensation.

The cookie crumbles both ways.

[Kath]

Amazon steals wages from their workers, yes, but, the SCOTUS said okee dokie on that. A union can't fix that issue.

[Speaker to Animals]

Amazon steals wages from their workers, yes, but, the SCOTUS said okee dokie on that. A union can't fix that issue.

Uh.. yeah they can. It goes into the contract.

Shit like that is exactly why we have unions.

[BjornP]

Unions did the country a solid when they first started. Got workers out of some seriously difficult times. Those days are gone, though - from my POV, Unions protect lazy and incompetent workers and hold back quality workers.

For context that I don't have's sake: To what extent can a union protect a lazy and incompetent worker from getting fired from his employer? In the most union-friendly of the US states, I mean?

[Speaker to Animals]

Unions did the country a solid when they first started. Got workers out of some seriously difficult times. Those days are gone, though - from my POV, Unions protect lazy and incompetent workers and hold back quality workers.

For context that I don't have's sake: To what extent can a union protect a lazy and incompetent worker from getting fired from his employer? In the most union-friendly of the US states, I mean?

Not much outside of public unions and universities. They will try to work with the employer mostly. Counsel the employee and try to correct the problem.

[nmoore63]

Unions did the country a solid when they first started. Got workers out of some seriously difficult times. Those days are gone, though - from my POV, Unions protect lazy and incompetent workers and hold back quality workers.

For context that I don't have's sake: To what extent can a union protect a lazy and incompetent worker from getting fired from his employer? In the most union-friendly of the US states, I mean?

At Boeing its impossible for the company to fire someone if they show up for work on time and don't lie.

To get around this, they regularly have massive layoffs, and then hire back the individuals they want.

[Kath]

For context that I don't have's sake: To what extent can a union protect a lazy and incompetent worker from getting fired from his employer? In the most union-friendly of the US states, I mean?

I used to be in charge of the ISO-9000 and OSHA programs at a factory, so I spent a lot of time with the union side of the house.

Excellent workers who want to go above and beyond are peer-pressured by the rest to slow down, so as not to raise management's expectations. This excellent worker makes the same money, gets the same raise, as the guy doing less and actively pressuring the better employee to slow down.

It's all self-fulfilling. First day on the job, it's not your supervisor that tells you how much you are supposed to crank out; it's the team lead, also a union guy, who sets you straight on day 1. "We produce X and no more, because if you product X+1, management will expect X+1 everyday, and now we're working harder.

The slowest control the pace on a production line. As long as you are producing the minimum, you can't be fired.