Another Reason the Wall is Dumb

KerningChameleon
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Re: Another Reason the Wall is Dumb

Post by KerningChameleon » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:26 pm

Trump’s ‘big, beautiful wall’ will require him to take big swaths of other people’s land
The wall will cost a lot more — politically and economically — than Trump has publicly acknowledged. To build the wall along the nearly 2,000-mile border — and fulfill a key campaign promise — Trump will need to wield the power of government to forcibly take private properties, including those belonging to his supporters.

Much of the border, especially in Texas, snakes through farms, ranches, orchards, golf courses, and other private property dating back to centuries-old Spanish land grants. As a signpost to the troubles ahead, the government has still not finished the process from the last such undertaking a decade ago.

“It's going to be time consuming and costly,” said Tony Martinez, an attorney who is mayor of the border town of Brownsville, Tex. “From a political perspective, you have a lot of rich landowners who were his supporters.”
Thanks for the yuge win, now hand over a percentage of that cozy golf course you got there. Ask what you can do for your country and all that.
About 10 miles west of the university is another Brownsville golf course — the River Bend Resort & Golf Club that at the time managed to convince the Bush administration not to build on its property. The existing rust-colored border fence abuts the golf club’s eastern and western edges, but leaves a 1.7 mile gap in between.

The golf course’s new owners, who bought the club in 2015, say a wall running through the course would be disastrous for business. Fifteen of its 18 holes — and more than 200 homes — would be on the south side of the levee, where the wall would be constructed, said Jeremy Barnard, River Bend’s general manager whose father and uncle own the resort.

If the wall were to be built following its existing path along the levee, 70 percent of the 319-acre resort would be relegated to a sort of no man’s land between the levee and the natural border of the Rio Grande River, he said.

“My goal would be to get Trump out to play the course, appealing to the golf course owner and business side of him, and say, ‘Look, what would you do?’ ” Barnard said. “Seven of our holes are on the Rio Grande. You can hit your ball into Mexico, and it comes back into the United States. The beauty that comes with that, the natural landscape, 30-year-old oak trees — this is not a Walmart that I could just go reproduce on any other corner.”

Barnard, who voted for Trump, said he does not want to fight the Trump administration.

“We realize it’s a security issue. We are willing to work with them,” he said. “But we are not just going to hand over our land and say, ‘Here you go!’ ”
Fun to know that, in a forum united in its hatred of civil forfeiture, Donald nonetheless has rallied the troops into a staunch defense of eminent domain on the federal level. Quite a feather in his rhetorical cap, I'd say!
"Old World Blues.' It refers to those so obsessed with the past they can't see the present, much less the future, for what it is. They stare into the what-was...as the realities of their world continue on around them." -Fallout New Vegas

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Another Reason the Wall is Dumb

Post by Speaker to Animals » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:28 pm

Yeah, we should just not secure our borders, then..

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Martin Hash
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Re: Another Reason the Wall is Dumb

Post by Martin Hash » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:32 pm

KerningChameleon wrote:Fun to know that, in a forum united in its hatred of civil forfeiture, Donald nonetheless has rallied the troops into a staunch defense of eminent domain on the federal level. Quite a feather in his rhetorical cap, I'd say!
There is irony in them thar words.

p.s. I still support the Wall/Fence/WTF
Shamedia, Shamdemic, Shamucation, Shamlection, Shamconomy & Shamate Change

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Fife
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Re: Another Reason the Wall is Dumb

Post by Fife » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:45 pm

Cheers to you all on yet another winning government project! :drunk:

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Another Reason the Wall is Dumb

Post by Speaker to Animals » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:52 pm

Some people want clear distinctions and borders; some people want to eliminate them. That's the battle raging right now across social, economic, and political spaces.

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Fife
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Re: Another Reason the Wall is Dumb

Post by Fife » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:55 pm

Wanting a border doesn't equate to supporting a stupid and insanely expensive wall that the government can't even build.

KerningChameleon
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Re: Another Reason the Wall is Dumb

Post by KerningChameleon » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:55 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:Some people want clear distinctions and borders; some people want to eliminate them. That's the battle raging right now across social, economic, and political spaces.
And apparently, among those who want strong borders, there is beginning to be a strong debate on exactly how and where those borders are drawn up.

where's the goddamn popcorn smiley
"Old World Blues.' It refers to those so obsessed with the past they can't see the present, much less the future, for what it is. They stare into the what-was...as the realities of their world continue on around them." -Fallout New Vegas

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Another Reason the Wall is Dumb

Post by Speaker to Animals » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:08 pm

KerningChameleon wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:Some people want clear distinctions and borders; some people want to eliminate them. That's the battle raging right now across social, economic, and political spaces.
And apparently, among those who want strong borders, there is beginning to be a strong debate on exactly how and where those borders are drawn up.

where's the goddamn popcorn smiley

Property rights are important, but the idea that national security takes a backseat to property rights is the batshit libertarian analog to the environmentalists claiming that national security takes a backseat to animals.

If we don't have borders, then we don't have a nation. The mass migration of foreign peoples across nonexistent border signals the looming demise of our nation. I'm sorry to the ranchers who own some of that land, but the continued existence of the United States is more important to me than some of their grazing land. I fully support compensating them more than the land is actually worth, however.

heydaralon
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Re: Another Reason the Wall is Dumb

Post by heydaralon » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:44 pm

I've made this point before, but I don't really understand how liberals are against increased border security and are ardent about the dangers of climate change. Every nightmare climate change model that I've seen always shows the Southern Hemisphere getting hit way harder than the northern one. As a result, refugees from the shittier parts of the world will attempt to rush into the Western World. Europe will be flooded with Subsaharan Africans and Middle Easterners. The United States will be flooded with Guatemalans and Mexicans. I don't know how accurate those models are, but every hardcore progressive I know insists that climate change is going to devastate the planet. As this happens, is it reasonable to expect Central Americans to stay in their droughtridden and famished countries when the promised land of Obamaphones, Acorn triple-voting and anchor baby welfare checks lies north of the Rio Grande? If any of these models are correct, our border is going to get stampeded by half of the third world. Who is going to pay for the care of these people, and the security costs that arise when a wave of desperate third world criminals storm the borders as a result of climate change? If there is even a small chance of climate change occuring, border security is probably the single smartest thing we can do for our country's defense. I'm not saying it has to be a wall. The french made quite effective use of electrified fences during the Algerian civil war, so I wouldn't rule out a physical barrier. Perhaps we could have drones patrolling our border or infrared sensors. I'm open to anything that keeps these people from getting into our country tbh. Nothing is 100% effective, and some illegals would manage to slither through, but I think if we should rethink our entire border policy. Automating lots of the jobs that illegals take, such as fruitpicking, might also work wonders to curbing their numbers in the short term. I don't have all these answers.
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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Another Reason the Wall is Dumb

Post by Speaker to Animals » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:53 pm

Automation is already making their presence totally moot. This is why you see fast food and other no skill laborers freaking out in the streets with demonstrations.

People need to go home. I don't believe that an unreasonable expectation when so few of then even identify as Americans. Many of those people you see waving Mexican flags and declaring their intention of seizing the southwestern portion of the US for Mexico are at least second generation. Much of la raza is composed of people born in the US.

We don't need immigrants any longer. We truly don't need them and the ones we get come as net costs to us, coupled with our eventual demographic extinction.