The Right and the Left need each other - debate

[TheReal_ND]

Racism, nationalism, and fear-mongering

Stop jingling the fucking keys! I have a boxed wine hang over and need to do laundry.

[StCapps]

I could just as easily level these charges against the Far Right in this country. Racism, nationalism, and fear-mongering are NO less dangerous than social stupidity.

Except the far right white supremacists are far less numerous in number than the SJW's and you know it. False equivalency, you point to an extreme fringe group versus a large segment of the population.

[TheReal_ND]

No! We are behind every tree. We are your waiters your mailman your librarian. We could even be your neighbor. Our numbers are legion and we are only growing. We cannot be stopped.

[StCapps]

No! We are behind every tree. We are your waiters your mailman your librarian. We could even be your neighbor. Our numbers are legion and we are only growing. We cannot be stopped.

No you're a small fringe group and the SJW's outnumber you vastly. You are easily stopped and the growth of this group has been greatly exaggerated by the pearl clutching media, y'all ain't shit and never will be.

[TheReal_ND]

Small in number but fiesty. Honey Badger dgaf

[nickle7]

I don't see marxism on the left, at all. I see no movement of a proletariat, there is no sense on the left that an individuals work is the states, if they did we'd be fucked because there are way more stupid liberals than stupid conservatives.

I do not see an argument against the traditional family from the left. Expanding marriage and screwing with gender norms is weird, but even serial monogamy isn't what Engels was on about, and the decay on that front is couched in the argument of individual liberty.

I don't see a serious criticism from religion on the left. There's a disdain for anti-science, which I approve of, and a contempt for wrapping anti-science in belief, but the gayest gay gay to ever gay is about as likely to want the love of God as anyone else. I think there's a war on religion from the conservative side that is every bit as pernicious and poisonous as the attacks from the left.

Religion is getting screwed because dumb people on both sides think they're very smart and know the mind of God, or they think the inability to do that means that God does not exist. Rational believers are then left with the unenviable position of keeping the flame, and that shit does not put food on the table sadly, so its a part time gig for most.

There's a distinction between cultural Marxism and political Marxism that you're failing to make here. Sure, the argument that political Marxism is gaining ground in this country is much harder to make than the fact that cultural Marxism is becoming quite popular.

That pursuit of individual liberty you're talking about is probably from great intention but it doesn't stop there. Law are created to make everyone "equal," (an equality that is focused on equal outcome rather than equal opportunity) which is then a stepping stone to laws like Canada's BillC-16, which does not represent any sort of freedom I'd like to live under.

I could just as easily level these charges against the Far Right in this country. Racism, nationalism, and fear-mongering are NO less dangerous than social stupidity. Indeed, the danger is spread to entire globe, because of our pivotal position in the economic and military balance of the planet.

Lastly, as Dan has pointed out so many time, our Left is still to the Right of the rest of the first world. That's not something to disregard, if you're interested in balance.

And yes, I'd say the same thing about the far right. It's true that the left is still to the right of pretty much everywhere in Europe, but that's grading on a curve. Look at the ideological foundations of any European country. I think it's fair to say that none of them spell out in clear of terms the value of individual freedom to the extent that the ideological foundations of America do. The fact is that we've been drifting left in a way that is beginning to sacrifice some of those core principles. It does us no good to grade America on a scale here.

[DrYouth]

I reject the premise.

I do agree that an equilibrium of political forces tends to facilitate more stable government, but when one of those forces can only be described as cultural suicide, equilibrium constitutes no virtue at all. I assume most of the leftists would agree with the premise that one could not justify seeking an equilibrium with a fascist right.

Yet today we wrestle with something even worse on the left: marxism. Destroy marxism, I say, and let a new equilibrium form based on healthy and rational political ideologies and viewpoints.

We have been subsidizing revolution with this garbage. No to compromise with marxism. Hell no.

Can you define what you are calling Marxism, or cultural Marxism...

What is this thing you cannot compromise with?
You are obviously not talking about the state owning the means of production.

Anytime someone starts talking about an ideology as a "cancer" that needs to be cut out... that usually doesn't go well.

[Speaker to Animals]

I reject the premise.

I do agree that an equilibrium of political forces tends to facilitate more stable government, but when one of those forces can only be described as cultural suicide, equilibrium constitutes no virtue at all. I assume most of the leftists would agree with the premise that one could not justify seeking an equilibrium with a fascist right.

Yet today we wrestle with something even worse on the left: marxism. Destroy marxism, I say, and let a new equilibrium form based on healthy and rational political ideologies and viewpoints.

We have been subsidizing revolution with this garbage. No to compromise with marxism. Hell no.

Can you define what you are calling Marxism, or cultural Marxism...

What is this thing you cannot compromise with?
You are obviously not talking about the state owning the means of production.

Anytime someone starts talking about an ideology as a "cancer" that needs to be cut out... that usually doesn't go well.

[Montegriffo]

No! We are behind every tree. We are your waiters your mailman your librarian. We could even be your neighbor. Our numbers are legion and we are only growing. We cannot be stopped.

Librarians wow, I didn't know they could even read. Well you learn something new every day.

[DrYouth]

That was a pretty cool clip...

I think I get what you're angling at.

The post-structural / post "colonial" intellectual movement taking on oppressor-victim relations....

For sure, that's a thing... I never heard it called Cultural Marxism... and I think that is a confusing term.

With the fall of the imperial age.... mostly the collapse of the British and then the Soviet Empire... there has been a whole wave of re-narrating history from the vantage point of every imaginable non-dominant group (black, women, queer, muslim, oriental etc.)

In a way Dan Carlin's Hardcore History is a synthesis of the traditional western narrative and this second wave narration - (that puts the outsider group in the protagonist role - whitewashing them). He often juxtaposes these two versions of history.
He does this with the Steppe Peoples, the Mongols and even some Native American histories... and he does a good job of it.