How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

[Speaker to Animals]

I mean.. we already have local governments that think it's okay to tax people based on their race (see Seattle WTF thread). What happens when this is applied to health care?

[StCapps]

You have to realize that death panels will become weaponized in America. Like everything else. Imagine the same government that creates that family court system Alex Jones just encountered determining who gets to live or die.

I can't think of a way to make it right that does not involve just limiting it to a fixed amount for all enrollees.

I'm sure the American government fuck it up quite thoroughly.
But at least the people will pay less and get better health care, while they fuck it up.
Perfect is the enemy of perfectly adequate.
Y'all can join the first world, whenever you're ready.
America is just a little slow, that's all.

[Speaker to Animals]

You have to realize that death panels will become weaponized in America. Like everything else. Imagine the same government that creates that family court system Alex Jones just encountered determining who gets to live or die.

I can't think of a way to make it right that does not involve just limiting it to a fixed amount for all enrollees.

I'm sure the American government fuck it up quite thoroughly.
But at least the people will pay less and get better health care, while they fuck it up.
Perfect is the enemy of perfectly adequate.
Y'all can join the first world, whenever you're ready.
America is just a little slow, that's all.

It should just use the same limits that currently exist on Medicare.

Or, more appropriately, something like a 20% co-pay for most non-routine services would help limit costs and overuse of resources. Maybe scale that according to means, but everybody should pay something.

Death panels are a no-go, honestly. I'd rather do it with co-pays.

[Dand]

I mean.. we already have local governments that think it's okay to tax people based on their race (see Seattle WTF thread). What happens when this is applied to health care?

The slow motion coup de grace for whitey.

As much as I dislike it, I would accept a fair public system that provides the exact same amount of value to each citizen and allows people to spend their own money past that point if they want to. We wouldn't need death panels if that were the case.

[Dand]

I think the answer is that life is not fair and we're all going to die. I don't care about someone's arguments on this topic if they don't accept those two basic truths.

I accept those basic truths. Now what? Can you be specific?

A waitress without health care is clearly suffering from some sort of cold. Without a doctor, she plugs along. Without help, this develops into pneumonia and the cost to fix it is way higher than it was six days ago. Still, she can't afford it. So, now she just dies because she couldn't afford some penicillin and cough syrup?

Ok, I accept she died. Too bad, so sad. That's cool. In the meantime, she got 20 restaurant customers sick because she couldn't afford to stay home, even though she was dying (and didn't really know it.) Four of the people who got sick also have no insurance and are on their way to making even more people sick. Now it cascades ... like when the kids go back to school in August but without any care.

I'm trying to figure out how a healthy populace isn't in our best interest. If enough people truly lack access to basic health care, we could be talking about epidemics.

--

A three-year old breaks her arm. Mom and dad and family can't afford a cast. Three year old grows up with a permanent disfigurement?

--

Now, these may be appeals to the heart, but I maintain they are not. They are real life examples of how shit goes down if a large percentage of the population can't access any health care.

Keep in mind, in this "pay or no service," health care society, we're going to have to take away the mandate that ERs must treat everyone, because a big part of the reasons that major health care is so expensive is because poor people were using the ER as their primary care, so that wasn't working.

So, whatcha got? What happens when dad has a heart attack but doesn't have his proof of insurance on him?

If that waitress is neglecting her health to the point of death, how can she be saved? People have some agency and the government would need to have total control of our lives in order to save someone from virtually ending their own life by their negligence.

I don't believe that your situations are realistic because they all assume that the payment is immediate and up-front. All of them would be solved by being treated and then billed and paying for the treatment after the fact. For a very expensive treatment, drug companies offer their drugs for reduced prices (down to $0) for people who show they are unable to afford them and a person could take out a loan or agree on a payment plan with the hospital in the case of a necessary treatment that can't be paid up-front.

I've accepted that we're going to give people free stuff though and there are some options. Providing every citizen with the same amount of value really looks like the battleground to me. We're going to have socialized healthcare, Democrats won already.

[Ph64]

Death panels are a no-go, honestly. I'd rather do it with co-pays.

You've lived with death panels your entire life. When the insurance company says "sorry, you've reached your $million lifetime cap", or "sorry, we won't pay for that experimental treatment that might save your life", what else is that but a death panel? It's just a corporate run death panel rather than a government run one.

[Martin Hash]

Death panels are a no-go, honestly. I'd rather do it with co-pays.

You've lived with death panels your entire life. When the insurance company says "sorry, you've reached your $million lifetime cap", or "sorry, we won't pay for that experimental treatment that might save your life", what else is that but a death panel? It's just a corporate run death panel rather than a government run one.

"Death Panels" are obviously disingenuous. As soon as they come up in debate, I'm out.

p.s. The Rich LOVE America's healthcare system.

[Ph64]

Death panels are a no-go, honestly. I'd rather do it with co-pays.

You've lived with death panels your entire life. When the insurance company says "sorry, you've reached your $million lifetime cap", or "sorry, we won't pay for that experimental treatment that might save your life", what else is that but a death panel? It's just a corporate run death panel rather than a government run one.

"Death Panels" are obviously disingenuous. As soon as they come up in debate, I'm out.

p.s. The Rich LOVE America's healthcare system.

And that's why we'll never get real change... they own the politicians.

[ssu]

Well, they republicans got it passed!

Bernie Sanders thanking President Trump:



Yes, Americans want to have less coverage and pay far more than any other Western country.
It's just something very American.

[clubgop]

Well, they republicans got it passed!

Bernie Sanders thanking President Trump:



Yes, Americans want to have less coverage and pay far more than any other Western country.
It's just something very American.

We already do it for education. But because the government runs that and the teacher's unions own the democrats we never talk about that.