The Mess

[Smitty-48]

Have the civilian executions been confirmed? I'd figure it'd be the drugged out Free Syrian Army that were executing civilians.

Well, it was a Free Syrian Army stronghold in the "Arab Spring", so seriously doubt the Assadists are apt to let anybody escape the pocket, but Mr. Ivan doesn't mess about neither, he's treating everybody in there as "Radicaliya" and "Daesha".

The Russians may have adopted western style kit and tactics, but they're still the Russians, they don't have the same doctrine as you do, they embrace scorched earth as being wholly legitimate and in fact neccesary.

[TheReal_ND]

Russia understands how to fight rebels. They are not a bunch of brave suicide bombers. They will cave when their families start getting executed. Honestly that's the only way anything gets done in the ME.

[Smitty-48]

Pretty much, there's no such thing as "collateral damage" to Mr. Ivan, he takes the approach of "c'est la guerre, war is hell, if you don't like it, don't fuck with us".

[ssu]

They will cave when their families start getting executed. Honestly that's the only way anything gets done in the ME.

Would you cave in so? Or would in general Texans cave in with such antics.

Comes to mind just how the Marines and the US Armed forces de facto defeated the Sunni insurgency (only for the victory to be thrown away later).

Not with that kind of way. The way that some Mattis, Kelly and the lot won Al Anbar.

[TheReal_ND]

I'm only relating stories of how Muslims are dealt with in Chechnya as told by a Russian.

[ssu]

I'm only relating storiesof how Muslims are dealt with in Chechnya.

But you see, the Russians actually did the same thing: Ramzan Kadyrov and his family were fighting the Russians in the First Chechen War. You have to get the insurgents, or at least part of them to your side.

The Kadyrovtsy were formed during the First Chechen War when Akhmad Kadyrov launched the jihad against Russia. The Kadyrov clan defected to the Moscow side at the beginning of the Second Chechen War in 1999. Since then, Kadyrov led his militia with support from Russia's FSB state security service (including service ID cards) becoming the head of the Chechen Presidential Security Service. The militia later became known as the Kadyrovites.

(from Wikipedia)

It's from the same kind of thing as the "Sunni Awakening". Then just the US military had to choose which insurgents they would friend.

And I posted on the kybkh's Coup-thread two interviews given By the new Homeland Security director John Kelly. Kelly describes really well just how you end and insurgency. American style.

Chechnya: Clear, hold, build.

[Smitty-48]

Except it's the Chechen tail which wags the Russian dog, not the other way round, Putin made a deal with a devil, but he has no control over him, Ramzan can run amok, right outside the gates of the Kremlin in fact, and Putin must look the other way, lest he must fight another Chechen war to remove the Kadyrov unleashed.

Oh, and what is Ramzan's policy on Russian Federals entering Chechnya? “I would like to officially state: open fire if someone from Moscow or Stavropol, it doesn’t matter, appears on your turf without your knowledge. We have to be reckoned with.”

Clear-Hold-Build, my aunt fannie.

[Hwen Hoshino]

Except it's the Chechen tail which wags the Russian dog, not the other way round, Putin made a deal with a devil, but he has no control over him, Ramzan can run amok, right outside the gates of the Kremlin in fact, and Putin must look the other way, lest he must fight another Chechen war to remove the Kadyrov unleashed.

Oh, and what is Ramzan's policy on Russian Federals entering Chechnya? “I would like to officially state: open fire if someone from Moscow or Stavropol, it doesn’t matter, appears on your turf without your knowledge. We have to be reckoned with.”

Clear-Hold-Build, my aunt fannie.

And if he would put you in charge you would easily come up with better solutions than him?

[ssu]

Except it's the Chechen tail which wags the Russian dog, not the other way round, Putin made a deal with a devil, but he has no control over him, Ramzan can run amok, right outside the gates of the Kremlin in fact, and Putin must look the other way, lest he must fight another Chechen war to remove the Kadyrov unleashed.

Oh, and what is Ramzan's policy on Russian Federals entering Chechnya? “I would like to officially state: open fire if someone from Moscow or Stavropol, it doesn’t matter, appears on your turf without your knowledge. We have to be reckoned with.”

Clear-Hold-Build, my aunt fannie.

Then it's your aunt's fannie.

Clear: no significant insurgent activity in Chechnya anymore.
Hold: Putin just last fall appointed Kadyrov to remain as leader of Chechnya
Build: Grozny isn't ruins anymore

Ramzan is his own little dictator in Chechnya, but close to Putin. Chechnens fought in Eastern Ukraine and are even alleged to fight in Syria (which Kadyrov has denied) and were used in South Ossetia. So Chechnya provides mercenaries for Russia. I'm wondering were you get this idea that Putin has to fight Kadyrov. It's just working fine. So it's alleged that Kadyrov killed an opposition leader in Moscow. Well, that's just fine with Putin. And if some human rights advocates are beaten in Chechnya, would Putin care?

No my friend, the two are reasonably good friends. Perhaps Putin will have problems with Chechnya when Ramzan dies (or is killed). Chechnya erupts every now and then. But perhaps for a decade or even longer time it's peaceful.



An interesting picture of Kadyrov inspecting his troops. Notice that every second man has an RPG. Something from the team tactics of the Chechen wars.

[Fife]

Hey Smits, is this the thread where we can post cool, likely-to-be-Smitty-approved-images, given the impressive media capabilities of this site?

Anyway, I'm going to assume that it is. Cool, reproduced, content is probably not going to hurt this place much anyhoo, given the quality of original content it's been producing. :goteam: :drunk:

Something to consider as we approach Christmas:

https://www.strategypage.com/military_p ... 05416.aspx

Battle of the bulge - American M-36 Jackson tank destroyers move forward during heavy fog to stem German spearhead near Werbomont, Belgium, 20 Dec 44. Werbomont, 703rd TD, 82nd Airborne Div.




Do you read https://www.strategypage.com/ ?