The Intellectual Dark Web

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Montegriffo
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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web

Post by Montegriffo » Wed May 30, 2018 8:34 am

OMOV.
One Man (person) One Vote.
Anything else is discriminatary.
Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…
House of Commons, 11 November 1947
If I had to sum up the immediate future of democratic politics in a single word I should say “insurance.” That is the future—insurance against dangers from abroad, insurance against dangers scarcely less grave and much more near and constant which threaten us here at home in our own island. —Free Trade Hall, Manchester, 23 May 1909

At the bottom of all the tributes paid to democracy is the little man, walking into the little booth, with a little pencil, making a little cross on a little bit of paper—no amount of rhetoric or voluminous discussion can possibly diminish the overwhelming importance of that point. —House of Commons, 31 October 1944

How is that word “democracy” to be interpreted? My idea of it is that the plain, humble, common man, just the ordinary man who keeps a wife and family, who goes off to fight for his country when it is in trouble, goes to the poll at the appropriate time, and puts his cross on the ballot paper showing the candidate he wishes to be elected to Parliament—that he is the foundation of democracy. And it is also essential to this foundation that this man or woman should do this without fear, and without any form of intimidation or victimization. He marks his ballot paper in strict secrecy, and then elected representatives and together decide what government, or even in times of stress, what form of government they wish to have in their country. If that is democracy, I salute it. I espouse it. I would work for it.” —House of Commons, 8 December 1944
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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DBTrek
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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web

Post by DBTrek » Wed May 30, 2018 8:37 am

Montegriffo wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 8:34 am
OMOV.
One Man (person) One Vote.
Anything else is discriminatary.
One man one vote is discriminatory as it assumes an equality in judgement, expertise, and capability among all men.

You want your airline pilot to be a nearsighted epileptic with Down syndrome, or an ex-air force fighter pilot? Democracy says it doesn’t matter, one man is equal to another.
But it does matter.

/shrug
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

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Fife
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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web

Post by Fife » Wed May 30, 2018 8:46 am

Speaking of the God That Failed, here's a post-Trump take from Jeff Deist:
Fast forward to 2017, however, and the case against democracy is being made right in front of our eyes. Witness Hillary Clinton, who not long ago gushed about our “sacred” right to vote — that is until her stupendous loss to Trump. Today she clings to the specious nonsense that the Russians somehow influenced our election by planting stories and using social media, which if true would be an excellent argument against voting rights. If the natives are so easily duped by a few silly posts in their Facebook feeds, why on earth is their vote meaningful or sacred?

Other progressives like Michael Moore demand that Trump be arrested, presumably for treason. Left-leaning cable news pundits openly call for Trump to resign or be impeached. Mainstream newspapers wonder whether he’ll even finish his four-year term. The overwhelming message from the media is that Trump is a disaster, an existential threat that must be stopped.

But it’s not just progressives questioning democratic outcomes. Neoconservative Bill Kristol tweets that he’d rather be governed by an unaccountable deep state than Trump. Mild-mannered conservative moralist Dennis Prager, a reasonable and likeable right winger in my view, argues quite seriously that we are in the midst of a second civil war with those who simply reject their electoral defeat. And the libertarianish jurist Richard Epstein, writing for the somnambulant Hoover Institution, unloads a litany of grievances against Trump that would make Bill Maher blush.

. . .

Things are getting strange in America when Michael Moore and Dennis Prager start to sound the same, and that’s arguably a very good development. We are close to a time when the democracy illusion will be shattered, for good and all. Democracy was always a bad idea, one that encourages mindless majoritarianism, political pandering, theft, redistribution, war, and an entitlement mentality among supposedly noble voters. It’s an idea whose time has passed, both on a national and international scale. The future of liberty is decentralized, and will be led by smaller breakaway nations and regions where real self-determination and real consensus is not an illusion. Jefferson and Hoppe were right about democracy, but it took Trump and Brexit to show the world how quickly elites abandon it when they don’t prevail.
https://mises.org/wire/democracy-god-thats-failing


These mid-terms this year could really set some shit going past the boiling point. 2020 is going to be some crazy shit like we've never seen before. Remember, there is no "deep state," there's just the "state." And if "democracy" gets in the way, well, that will be dealt with.

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DBTrek
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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web

Post by DBTrek » Wed May 30, 2018 8:50 am

“If democracy gets in the way ...”

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Democracy WAS the way.
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

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Fife
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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web

Post by Fife » Wed May 30, 2018 8:54 am

How's that working out for you?

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Montegriffo
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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web

Post by Montegriffo » Wed May 30, 2018 8:57 am

DBTrek wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 8:37 am
Montegriffo wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 8:34 am
OMOV.
One Man (person) One Vote.
Anything else is discriminatary.
One man one vote is discriminatory as it assumes an equality in judgement, expertise, and capability among all men.

You want your airline pilot to be a nearsighted epileptic with Down syndrome, or an ex-air force fighter pilot? Democracy says it doesn’t matter, one man is equal to another.
But it does matter.

/shrug
If you put that choice to a democratic vote amongst the passengers then the ex-air force fighter pilot gets the job 100% of the time.
Shouldn't need to be a pilot to qualify to vote on it though.

Certain exceptions should exist, those in prison should lose the right for example or perhaps non citizens but the basic principle of OMOV has to stand or you end up with the elite voting themselves into power every time.

There would be no president Trump or Brexit if only the informed got a vote after all. ;)
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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DBTrek
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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web

Post by DBTrek » Wed May 30, 2018 9:03 am

Montegriffo wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 8:57 am
Certain exceptions should exist, those in prison should lose the right for example or perhaps non citizens but the basic principle of OMOV has to stand or you end up with the elite voting themselves into power every time.
OMOV ... but exceptions, of course!
Lulz
Way to take a stand.
You’ve agreed with me, you simply have a lower standard for your preferred exceptions.
There would be no president Trump or Brexit if only the informed got a vote after all. ;)
Smug, uninformed voters certainly tell themselves that over and over.
;)
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

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Montegriffo
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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web

Post by Montegriffo » Wed May 30, 2018 9:07 am

members of the House of Lords
EU citizens (other than UK, Republic of Ireland, Cyprus and Malta) resident in the UK
anyone other than British, Irish and qualifying Commonwealth citizens
convicted persons detained in pursuance of their sentences, excluding contempt of court (though remand prisoners, unconvicted prisoners and civil prisoners can vote if they are on the electoral register)
anyone found guilty within the previous five years of corrupt or illegal practices in connection with an election
These are the only exceptions in the UK. No mention of how informed you are.
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/f ... l-election
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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DBTrek
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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web

Post by DBTrek » Wed May 30, 2018 9:16 am

We have states that don’t allow felons to vote, and obviously we don’t let minors vote. So for all who might be predisposed to act appalled at the suggestion that democracy for all is not ideal, I’d remind them that even the USA doesn’t let everyone vote. So it appears that people inherently recognize that OMOV is an ideal with no real place in reality.
/shrug
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

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Montegriffo
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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web

Post by Montegriffo » Wed May 30, 2018 9:35 am

So what would you add to that short list?
Whose vote would you take away?
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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