Why are you conservative, why are you liberal, why are you independent?

[doc_loliday]

There is no such thing as "just keep the harming to yourselves". We are all part of the same communities and nations. If half the population just fucked off and killed themselves on drugs, we'd be well-fucked right now. Do you even listen to yourself when you repeat these things?

Well, they aren't going to, so I don't care about your ludicrous hypotheticals. I mean what if half of the gun owners just went a killing spree? What then? What then?

[Speaker to Animals]

There is no such thing as "just keep the harming to yourselves". We are all part of the same communities and nations. If half the population just fucked off and killed themselves on drugs, we'd be well-fucked right now. Do you even listen to yourself when you repeat these things?

Well, they aren't going to, so I don't care about your ludicrous hypotheticals. I mean what if half of the gun owners just went a killing spree? What then? What then?

Now you are flailing for real.

None of this is hypothetical in the least. If you legalize heroin and a third of the population becomes street people addicted to heroin, we are going to have massive problems that affect all of us. It's already happening in liberal cities everywhere. Fact. Not a hypothetical.

If you liberalize sexual behavior, you are going to get an STD epidemic, a rising tide of ill-legitimate child-births, rising abortions, etc. Fact. Happened. Not a hypothetical. The demographic pyramid inverting as a result of birth control and abortion is not a fucking hypothetical.

None of this is hypothetical. All of these immoral behaviors have negative consequences for all of us. Pretending otherwise is the ENTIRE FUCKING PROBLEM. By pretending all this behavior is fine, people then demand legal and social support for those behaviors. This infringes upon our rights. It drains our coffers dry with the social programs to support the negative consequences of the immoral behavior.

We are all affected.

[doc_loliday]

There is no such thing as "just keep the harming to yourselves". We are all part of the same communities and nations. If half the population just fucked off and killed themselves on drugs, we'd be well-fucked right now. Do you even listen to yourself when you repeat these things?

Well, they aren't going to, so I don't care about your ludicrous hypotheticals. I mean what if half of the gun owners just went a killing spree? What then? What then?

Now you are flailing for real.

None of this is hypothetical in the least. If you legalize heroin and a third of the population becomes street people addicted to heroin, we are going to have massive problems that affect all of us. It's already happening in liberal cities everywhere. Fact. Not a hypothetical.

If you liberalize sexual behavior, you are going to get an STD epidemic, a rising tide of ill-legitimate child-births, rising abortions, etc. Fact. Happened. Not a hypothetical. The demographic pyramid inverting as a result of birth control and abortion is not a fucking hypothetical.

None of this is hypothetical. All of these immoral behaviors have negative consequences for all of us. Pretending otherwise is the ENTIRE FUCKING PROBLEM. By pretending all this behavior is fine, people then demand legal and social support for those behaviors. This infringes upon our rights. It drains our coffers dry with the social programs to support the negative consequences of the immoral behavior.

We are all affected.

You're affected psychologically. . Nobody is buying your "if you let people have guns, they will all go out and kill every one. Just look at all the murders" nonsense.

I choose not to enable addict behavior. If junkies are made to bear the weight of their actions, there would be a lot less addicts. You yourself could go score some heroin or other drugs right now if you wanted, and yet you don't. You contradict your argument by sitting at your computer.

[doc_loliday]

You have to let people make their own decisions and stop trying to micromanage their lives. People will come around if you don't enable their behavior. Banning guns, pot, sex, or whatever will never work.

[doc_loliday]

If a junkie can do his job, sitting at home writing code, I don't care, its only when the needles are thrown on the ground that I mind.
If a gun owner likes to shoot guns on the weekend, I don't care about that either. Just don't shoot anyone.

I actually worry more when people start suggesting they aren't contributing enough to the borg, er "society". People don't have to be 100% productive worker bees. If they don't want to contribute their full potential to society, that's on them. They just need to support themselves.

[doc_loliday]

If you are the type of person that can't use alcohol, have sex, or shoot guns without affecting others negatively, then you don't get to indulge in those behaviors.

[Speaker to Animals]

Well, they aren't going to, so I don't care about your ludicrous hypotheticals. I mean what if half of the gun owners just went a killing spree? What then? What then?

Now you are flailing for real.

None of this is hypothetical in the least. If you legalize heroin and a third of the population becomes street people addicted to heroin, we are going to have massive problems that affect all of us. It's already happening in liberal cities everywhere. Fact. Not a hypothetical.

If you liberalize sexual behavior, you are going to get an STD epidemic, a rising tide of ill-legitimate child-births, rising abortions, etc. Fact. Happened. Not a hypothetical. The demographic pyramid inverting as a result of birth control and abortion is not a fucking hypothetical.

None of this is hypothetical. All of these immoral behaviors have negative consequences for all of us. Pretending otherwise is the ENTIRE FUCKING PROBLEM. By pretending all this behavior is fine, people then demand legal and social support for those behaviors. This infringes upon our rights. It drains our coffers dry with the social programs to support the negative consequences of the immoral behavior.

We are all affected.

You're affected psychologically. . Nobody is buying your "if you let people have guns, they will all go out and kill every one. Just look at all the murders" nonsense.

I choose not to enable addict behavior. If junkies are made to bear the weight of their actions, there would be a lot less addicts. You yourself could go score some heroin or other drugs right now if you wanted, and yet you don't. You contradict your argument by sitting at your computer.

Owning a gun is not a moral issue.

You are deflecting and trying to avoid the issue. You know I am right. These things you describe as "not affecting anybody else" definitely affect all of us.

You said safe sex doesn't affect anybody. Well, your jimmy hat doesn't stop you from catching HPV. If you caught that in your youth while banging random chicks, then you can pass that along to your wife. Now she has the STD and that particular one makes her quite a lot more vulnerable to getting cervical cancer. That was behavior that affected other people.

A woman has promiscuous sex with random men and gets pregnant. Now she is a single mother. She has to use Medicaid, rent subsidies, and she clogs up the court system with all her child support demands and whatnot. That was behavior that cost the rest of society (actually a lot when you consider the damage she inflicts upon her offspring).

I could keep rolling with these examples all day. Name an actual moral behavior (a real one, owning a gun is not a moral decision) you think doesn't affect anybody else but the person engaging in it and I will probably be able to explain how it does in fact affect other people negatively. Shit, I know you can do it as well. You know you can because -- by definition -- an immoral behavior impacts others. Indeed, they impact all of society.

If all these immoral behaviors actually do inflict costs upon others, including all of society, then the entire basis of liberalism (which includes libertarianism and conservatism) is built upon a lie. None of this shit pans out when you dispel this lie. The entire Enlightenment was built upon this. Guess when the authoritarian nation states arose..

[doc_loliday]

I have addressed every single one of your "arguments", over and over again. The fact is that millions of people participate in some form or another, in many of your nanny list of despised activities every day and don't hurt or bother anybody else, some of them are the very same sexual activities that you brag about in other threads, and yet the world keeps spinning.

Look, nobody wants to be nanny. Just own it. And then stop it.

[Speaker to Animals]

To wit: when you claim something "doesn't harm other people", then you literally are claiming that something is not an immoral issue. That is the problem with liberalism that leads to all this degeneracy, suffering, and social decay.

To claim that something is immoral but doesn't harm other people is a contradiction. Everything that is immoral in some way harms others. That's why it is immoral.

That you tried to equate moral issues with the ludicrous anti-gun mentality of the left tells me that you don't really have a very good grasp on morality in the first place. It seems as if you just view morals as a collection of social values you inherit from society, malleable, etc. In fact, morals derive from reason applied to human nature. Anything that negatively impacts other people is immoral to some extent, depending upon the severity of the impact. Here we don't mean offense or discomfort but, rather, a genuine cost or hardship.

Most of the things liberals of all stripes champion as "not harming anybody" have harm you can probably measure in dollar figures and ruined lives, so we are nowhere near the "cause offense" threshold.

You getting a gun doesn't negatively impact anybody. It only causes offense to democrats. If you brandish your gun around the neighborhood, threateningly, then you inflicted some harm on others, and the law will punish your immoral action. That brandishing was the immoral behavior here. I could say the same thing about my kitchen knife. The fact that I can brandish a kitchen knife and threaten neighbors doesn't make purchasing any kitchen knife an immoral act.

Liberals often don't even understand what the fuck they are even discussing in this context.

[doc_loliday]

To wit: when you claim something "doesn't harm other people", then you literally are claiming that something is not an immoral issue. That is the problem with liberalism that leads to all this degeneracy, suffering, and social decay.

To claim that something is immoral but doesn't harm other people is a contradiction. Everything that is immoral in some way harms others. That's why it is immoral.

That you tried to equate moral issues with the ludicrous anti-gun mentality of the left tells me that you don't really have a very good grasp on morality in the first place. It seems as if you just view morals as a collection of social values you inherit from society, malleable, etc. In fact, morals derive from reason applied to human nature. Anything that negatively impacts other people is immoral to some extent, depending upon the severity of the impact. Here we don't mean offense or discomfort but, rather, a genuine cost or hardship.

Most of the things liberals of all stripes champion as "not harming anybody" have harm you can probably measure in dollar figures and ruined lives, so we are nowhere near the "cause offense" threshold.

Dude, I don't care if people harm themselves. Fuck off already with your collectivist marxist nannying nonsense.