Speaking of trashing the recently deceased ...

[Speaker to Animals]

How does illustrating the shitty action of one union somehow undermine the justification for any and all unions? That's fallacious reasoning.

And I admit public unions are a huge problem. I also admit plenty of unions go too far.

But it's also true that plenty of corporations go too far and yet you don't demand the end of incorporation.

[nmoore63]

How does illustrating the shitty action of one union somehow undermine the justification for any and all unions? That's fallacious reasoning.

And I admit public unions are a huge problem. I also admit plenty of unions go too far.

But it's also true that plenty of corporations go too far and yet you don't demand the end of incorporation.

Just the only one's I have experience with.

I was never in IAM, not in the story, but the one I am personally familiar with that shut down the goats.

I was in SPEEA. I dunno. Wasn't a choice. ~$50 a month. I wouldn't have been in SPEEA if it wasn't required.

[C-Mag]

Jarrar tweeted that she welcomed phones calls and posted what she said was her phone number. The number was actually a mental health crisis call line. ......................... cute right.

Well, the Doctor at the clinic didn't think so.

Your freedom of speech does not entitle you to have all these people spam an actual mental health crisis line. Please stop.
https://twitter.com/eugenegu/status/986 ... y-worse%2F

[Speaker to Animals]

How does illustrating the shitty action of one union somehow undermine the justification for any and all unions? That's fallacious reasoning.

And I admit public unions are a huge problem. I also admit plenty of unions go too far.

But it's also true that plenty of corporations go too far and yet you don't demand the end of incorporation.

Just the only one's I have experience with.

I was never in IAM, not in the story, but the one I am personally familiar with that shut down the goats.

I was in SPEEA. I dunno. Wasn't a choice. ~$50 a month. I wouldn't have been in SPEEA if it wasn't required.

I doubt it. You only notice it because it was a shitty experience. Likewise, the rabid progressive only notices the shitty corporations. Selection bias.

The anti-union lunatics are just as loony as the anti-corporation lunatics.

[Speaker to Animals]

Jarrar tweeted that she welcomed phones calls and posted what she said was her phone number. The number was actually a mental health crisis call line. ......................... cute right.

Well, the Doctor at the clinic didn't think so.

Your freedom of speech does not entitle you to have all these people spam an actual mental health crisis line. Please stop.
https://twitter.com/eugenegu/status/986 ... y-worse%2F

It's almost as if she makes shitty choices.

[nmoore63]

How does illustrating the shitty action of one union somehow undermine the justification for any and all unions? That's fallacious reasoning.

And I admit public unions are a huge problem. I also admit plenty of unions go too far.

But it's also true that plenty of corporations go too far and yet you don't demand the end of incorporation.

Just the only one's I have experience with.

I was never in IAM, not in the story, but the one I am personally familiar with that shut down the goats.

I was in SPEEA. I dunno. Wasn't a choice. ~$50 a month. I wouldn't have been in SPEEA if it wasn't required.

I doubt it. You only notice it because it was a shitty experience. Likewise, the rabid progressive only notices the shitty corporations. Selection bias.

The anti-union lunatics are just as loony as the anti-corporation lunatics.

It had zero impact on me.
I remember because I think its morbidly funny.

[Speaker to Animals]

I think the general decline of civilization is morbidly funny as well, not just the unions.

[BjornP]

What positive developments for a business does a union bring to the table that market forces don’t already provide?

Why would or should it matter if it brings a "positive development" for a business? Does a business having to fire an employee because of a bad fiscal year and a need for cutbacks, bring a "positive development" to that fired employee?

Oh, btw, how do or would private sector unions exist outside "market forces", excatly? Unless employees exist outside market forces, you're not making sense.

Plainly stated, unions are productive and fruitful for union members. They bring no benefit to a business nor to non-unionized laborers. Thus - are they necessary? Other than being self-serving, self-benefitting, coercive organizations, what do they provide that is a net plus for anyone outside their membership?

It provides more power to those with less. Saying you're "coerced" by unions, is like saying you're "coerced" to communicate on social media. That's the market. Don't want to be part of the market, don't sell or buy services there. Unions are part of the market. One you don't like maybe, but they are simply employees who've organized themselves into an organization like companies are made up of a board of trustees or funded by investors.

And freedom isn't very "productive" either. I thought you were becoming a fan of Sowell... not Stalin. People like him loved to reduce societal importance to matters of productivity and materialism. I'm sure even Thomas Sowell loves the fact that he's a free individual, instead of keeping him living his life as a highly educated slave in a shock collar, providing private tutorship to well off children. There are more importants metrics in a society than simply materialism and "productivity". After all, what benefit did the freeing of slaves provide that was a net plus for anyone outside their membership? What benefit do your fellow employees gain from you negotiating better pay and working conditions for yourself? If they don't gain any, does that mean your negotiation for higher pay is "unproductive"? "Useless"? And if it is, that must mean that you negotiating for higher wages and better working conditions for yourself provides no positive development for a business.. Which mean you shouldn't do that, I guess. Because that'd be self-serving, self-benefitting and you pressurizing your employer to pay you more is coercion and provides a net minus for them. Bad, bad DB...

Aside from that, two of my brothers have travelled to the US on business and had to deal with US unionized labor. They didn't have anything good to say about that, but that a principle doesn't work in one society doesn't mean it can't ever work. I know you do understand that, even if you're thinking right now of writing the most sarcastic reply you can think of. Here, unions provide unemployment insurance and professional training certifications and short education courses for all the unionized sectors - which are all of them. The first benefits society in that it puts less pressure on the welfare system, and the second benefits companies so they have access to better and more qualified personnel.

But even if they didn't... A company that produces a useless leisure product isn't bringing something "valuable" to society, either, DB. Doesn't mean they shouldn't get the same tax breaks as the "virtuous" companies, does it?

[DBTrek]

They serve the interest of *their* workers, not the workers. Numerous industries use union membership as a barrier to entry, harming actual workers.

So again ... if we lose unions what do we really lose?

And.. Amazon Inc serves the interest of *their* shareholders, and not all shareholders of any corporation.

What's your point here? That unions are shit because they are not philanthropic?

Amazon creates jobs for workers and supplies incredible cost savings to customers, in addition to serving the interests of their shareholders.

What do unions do in addition to serving the agenda of their members? They lock out workers that could otherwise compete, and then use their monopoly on labor to extort businesses for *more*.
/shrug

[Speaker to Animals]

They serve the interest of *their* workers, not the workers. Numerous industries use union membership as a barrier to entry, harming actual workers.

So again ... if we lose unions what do we really lose?

And.. Amazon Inc serves the interest of *their* shareholders, and not all shareholders of any corporation.

What's your point here? That unions are shit because they are not philanthropic?

Amazon creates jobs for workers and supplies incredible cost savings to customers, in addition to serving the interests of their shareholders.

What do unions do in addition to serving the agenda of their members? They lock out workers that could otherwise compete, and then use their monopoly on labor to extort businesses for *more*.
/shrug

A potential Amazon union would move goods to customers which generates incredible profit for Amazon shareholders, in addition to serving their interests as workers.

What is your point?