The End of Trump; the Dawning of the Age of Bolton.

[Hastur]

Prior to erecting the so called "Modern Frontier" in 1967, there were only about 1,000 crossings of the Inner German Border annually, so contrary to popular myth, there weren't actually that many people attempting to escape the Iron Curtain.

Also note, the Inner German Border was only 800 miles long, there was a 5 kilometer deep Sperrzone beyond the fortifications, the protective strip was sowed with 1.3 million AP mines, and there were 50,000 Grenzpolizei guarding it at all times, and they shot 1200 people for attempting to cross.

In the end, by 1988, the Soviets and DDR came to the conclusion that the Modern Frontier was financially unsustainable, and at the time of the collapse of the Iron Curtain they were intending to replace it with a much more modest "Grenz 2000" program, which would have replaced the fortifications with remote sensors.

The East Germans were like the frog in the slowly heating water at first. Probably thought it would work out somehow. I think a modern border would look a lot different but the point is that a nation need to protect its border if the difference is to big between nations. And the cost for not doing so far outweigh the price for doing it.
In the long perspective Mexico needs to be lifted up to a first world level of life quality but I’m not the person to tell how to get there. Having the most ambitious people leave is not a solution, that much I know.

None the less, I don't find the Inner German Border to be a model for a realistic solution in the United States, Apples to Oranges, not to mention the Inner German Border is a failed model, if emulating the East Germans is what America has come to, that's not a good sign.

Like Scott Adams like to say, analogies are poor persuasion. People end up searching for holes in the logic. Lesson learned.
America wants to stop people from entering, not leaving so there is a huge difference. The people trying to cross are Mexicans looking for jobs not Germans fleeing for their lives so nothing is the same. Shrug.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I don’t understand why it would have to come to that if you build a proper border. If the East Germans could afford to build one so could you.

Tresspassers will be dealt with with minimum amount of force like in every other instance. Do you have a lock on your front door? Does that mean you want to kill kids?

Every other nation on earth guards it’s borders unless they have some kind of deal like the Shengen agreement. You are deranged.

The East Germans (Russians) did not simply build a wall and walk away. It was manned with machine gun towers, mine fields, and dog patrols. And people still got through.

You made the comparison, I'm just asking whether you've really thought that through. How far are you (and the rest of America) willing to go, over some shitty jobs?

If you want to be taken seriously as an independent nation you do whatever it takes to keep your integrity. You are falling apart with the current No Borders No Nations bullshit. You are literally being cuckolded, sitting passively in the corner and nodding while your society is being fucked over by a stranger. Don’t you have any spine at all?

More than I should, probably. I simply don’t see a threat here. We have got WAY bigger problems than some extra Mexicans showing up to pick fruit, and clean hotel rooms.

The risk/reward of a militarized 2,000 mile border is off the scale.

[Smitty-48]

The East Germans were like the frog in the slowly heating water at first. Probably thought it would work out somehow. I think a modern border would look a lot different but the point is that a nation need to protect its border if the difference is to big between nations. And the cost for not doing so far outweigh the price for doing it.
In the long perspective Mexico needs to be lifted up to a first world level of life quality but I’m not the person to tell how to get there. Having the most ambitious people leave is not a solution, that much I know.

None the less, I don't find the Inner German Border to be a model for a realistic solution in the United States, Apples to Oranges, not to mention the Inner German Border is a failed model, if emulating the East Germans is what America has come to, that's not a good sign.

Like Scott Adams like to say, analogies are poor persuasion. People end up searching for holes in the logic. Lesson learned.
America wants to stop people from entering, not leaving so there is a huge difference. The people trying to cross are Mexicans looking for jobs not Germans fleeing for their lives so nothing is the same. Shrug.

Militarized overreach on the southern US border, unrealistic knee jerk populist fantasy which would backfire to the favour of the liberals. /shrug

[Smitty-48]

In the end, if you are going to employ quasi fascistic militarized terror to subjugate the opposition, you have to go to the source and put the jackboots to the liberals themselves, the real force which kept people from crossing the Inner German Border was not a wall, it was the Stazi; people had to leave their families behind, and they knew they would be terrorized after they fled, that's really how the East Germans kept a lid on it, they had hostages.

[Martin Hash]

I’m thinking Trump-haters would be licking their chops on this if they’re so sure of their predictions. It’s a “win” for both sides.

[Smitty-48]

There's plenty of people in the center and on the right who are going to oppose militarized overreach, one third of the electorate is vehemently opposed, one third is at the very least highly skeptical as to the sustainability and practical effectiveness, and previous administrations have already sent troops to the border, and it doesn't last, the military doesn't want the job, and they're not set up to sustain it for anything more than a brief interval anyways.

Might be effective as a partisan wedge issue, rhetorical sense, but as a practical policy it's nonsense, and as a military operational plan it's unrealistic.

[Martin Hash]

Just having troops there will reassure Trump people. Trump-haters will be certain it will fail and take Trump out.

[Smitty-48]

For a brief interval, but in reality, the military is not set up to seal borders against asymmetrical threats, and the military is not actually good at the job neither, it's not a military mission, the military is about stopping armies, not migrants.

It's like trying to use a sledgehammer to keep mice out of your house, wrong tool for the job.

When it comes to refugees and the like, armies just ignore them, as it's not a massed threat which firepower could be brought to bear against decisively, and it's too dispersed and diffuse for the military to seal off from penetrating a fighting position, it's a fool's errand to send an army against anything other than another army, armies are army killers, below that threat an army is bypassed relatively easily, and in the meantime, you're bleeding huge amounts of money to keep an army in the field, so it's not sustainable.

[Martin Hash]

An army can sit in its barracks or it can sit in front of monitors or listen to sensors then rush to scare the bejesus out of people who are already apprehensive of soldiers. Fear works.

[Martin Hash]

During the whole time, The Wall is being built on the National Emergency budget. What’s a couple hundred $billion out of a budget of 700 $billion, probably with this scenario in mind?