The short period when big scale historical movies were cool

[heydaralon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Fort_Pitt

In one instance, as recorded in his journal by sundries trader and militia Captain, William Trent, on June 24, 1763, dignitaries from the Delaware tribe met with Fort Pitt officials, warned them of "great numbers of Indians" coming to attack the fort, and pleaded with them to leave the fort while there was still time. The commander of the fort refused to abandon the fort. Instead, the British gave as gifts two blankets, one silk handkerchief and one linen from the smallpox hospital,[10] to two Delaware delegates after the parley, a principal warrior named Turtleheart, and Maumaultee, a Chief. The tainted gifts were, according to their inventory accounts, given to the Indian dignitaries "to Convey the Smallpox to the Indians".[11][12]

Thats pretty sneaky. What happened to Turtleneck and Manatee? I wonder if the Indians ever put two and two together, or if they did not ever link the disease to the blankets.

[SuburbanFarmer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Fort_Pitt

In one instance, as recorded in his journal by sundries trader and militia Captain, William Trent, on June 24, 1763, dignitaries from the Delaware tribe met with Fort Pitt officials, warned them of "great numbers of Indians" coming to attack the fort, and pleaded with them to leave the fort while there was still time. The commander of the fort refused to abandon the fort. Instead, the British gave as gifts two blankets, one silk handkerchief and one linen from the smallpox hospital,[10] to two Delaware delegates after the parley, a principal warrior named Turtleheart, and Maumaultee, a Chief. The tainted gifts were, according to their inventory accounts, given to the Indian dignitaries "to Convey the Smallpox to the Indians".[11][12]

Thats pretty sneaky. What happened to Turtleneck and Manatee? I wonder if the Indians ever put two and two together, or if they did not ever link the disease to the blankets.

If they were lucky, they died before their friends and family did.

[heydaralon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Fort_Pitt

Thats pretty sneaky. What happened to Turtleneck and Manatee? I wonder if the Indians ever put two and two together, or if they did not ever link the disease to the blankets.

If they were lucky, they died before their friends and family did.

Smallpox is nasty stuff. I'm glad that we have managed to rid the world of it for the most part. Nuke and I were discussing that earlier on this thread. I had heard that in school, but I read online that it was a legend. Then you posted that. Today I learned.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Thats pretty sneaky. What happened to Turtleneck and Manatee? I wonder if the Indians ever put two and two together, or if they did not ever link the disease to the blankets.

If they were lucky, they died before their friends and family did.

Smallpox is nasty stuff. I'm glad that we have managed to rid the world of it for the most part. Nuke and I were discussing that earlier on this thread. I had heard that in school, but I read online that it was a legend. Then you posted that. Today I learned.

There are many other recorded incidents.

Far more devastating though, was the biological impact of the first explorers making contact with natives. There are no solid records, of course, but tribal histories show massive casualties from common viruses and bacteria brought over from Europe, which spread across the continent at lightning speed. There's a solid argument to be made that this allowed the easy conquest of the Americas, even more than gunpowder.

[DBTrek]

Germ privilege.

[Alexander PhiAlipson]

There are many other recorded incidents.

Far more devastating though, was the biological impact of the first explorers making contact with natives. There are no solid records, of course, but tribal histories show massive casualties from common viruses and bacteria brought over from Europe, which spread across the continent at lightning speed. There's a solid argument to be made that this allowed the easy conquest of the Americas, even more than gunpowder.

Tell us more about these "many other" recorded instances.
Also, could we get a body count? How about some mass graves in North America? How many Indians were there in North America? How does a virus spread with "lightening speed" across the continent from contact with its first explorers among small groups of mostly isolated hunter gatherers who didn't even have horses or much in the way of east-west waterways? If smallpox was so virulent as to be able to be easily transmitted via blankets and silk handkerchiefs, who volunteered to collect and distribute them?
I have little doubt that "virgin soil" epidemics occurred across North America, but isn't it strange that the alleged incident (it is a bit doubtful) for which there is some documentation, took place better than a hundred years after first contact, and that the further west the settlers pressed, the more Indians they found?
A much better case could be made for South America where there had been people living in large communities.

[SuburbanFarmer]

There are many other recorded incidents.

Far more devastating though, was the biological impact of the first explorers making contact with natives. There are no solid records, of course, but tribal histories show massive casualties from common viruses and bacteria brought over from Europe, which spread across the continent at lightning speed. There's a solid argument to be made that this allowed the easy conquest of the Americas, even more than gunpowder.

Tell us more about these "many other" recorded instances.
Also, could we get a body count? How about some mass graves in North America? How many Indians were there in North America? How does a virus spread with "lightening speed" across the continent from contact with its first explorers among small groups of mostly isolated hunter gatherers who didn't even have horses or much in the way of east-west waterways? If smallpox was so virulent as to be able to be easily transmitted via blankets and silk handkerchiefs, who volunteered to collect and distribute them?
I have little doubt that "virgin soil" epidemics occurred across North America, but isn't it strange that the alleged incident (it is a bit doubtful) for which there is some documentation, took place better than a hundred years after first contact, and that the further west the settlers pressed, the more Indians they found?
A much better case could be made for South America where there had been people living in large communities.

Before I even bother finding links for you to ignore, I'll just answer some of these:

How does a virus spread with "lightening speed" across the continent from contact with its first explorers among small groups of mostly isolated hunter gatherers who didn't even have horses or much in the way of east-west waterways?

Because they weren't 'mostly isolated'. There is evidence of a vast trade network across the Americas, that was largely disrupted by the pandemic.

If smallpox was so virulent as to be able to be easily transmitted via blankets and silk handkerchiefs, who volunteered to collect and distribute them?

Probably the nurses/doctors that tended to it, or the lowest-ranking military officer available. You're not even bothering to think anymore, and it saddens me.

I have little doubt that "virgin soil" epidemics occurred across North America, but isn't it strange that the alleged incident (it is a bit doubtful) for which there is some documentation, took place better than a hundred years after first contact, and that the further west the settlers pressed, the more Indians they found?

The fact that one incident is documented is not proof that there were no other incidents. Also, if anything, this gives more credence to the possibility of a continental spread, as it would have taken some time for the illness to spread.
As for the western distribution of the tribes, does it not follow that the illness would have been more rampant to the east, where contact was made?
Besides, the native tribes spent a century migrating west, just to get away from the colonists/settlers.

[Alexander PhiAlipson]

Squanto's little tribe died where they lived--they didn't trudge west to the happy hunting grounds. Samoset's people were fine and stayed where they were--hoping for more beer.
You bought the bullshit--now you're simply making shit up, and tripping on your own imagination while you're at it.
Being that the diseases were so rampant in the east, they fled west, for a hundred years, to get away from the folk who gave it to them and thus gave it to other folk, until the folk who first gave it to them caught up with them gave to them again!

[SuburbanFarmer]

Squanto's little tribe died where they lived--they didn't trudge west to the happy hunting grounds. Samoset's people were fine and stayed where they were--hoping for more beer.
You bought the bullshit--now you're simply making shit up, and tripping on your own imagination while you're at it.
Being that the diseases were so rampant in the east, they fled west, for a hundred years, to get away from the folk who gave it to them and thus gave it to other folk, until the folk who first gave it to them caught up with them gave to them again!

Sure, it's your cartoon show.

I didn't say they fled from diseases, though some probably did. They were pushed west over the course of a century by settlers and government. If even that simplest of analyses is beyond you to think about, then we have absolutely nothing to discuss.

[C-Mag]

Squanto's little tribe died where they lived--they didn't trudge west to the happy hunting grounds. Samoset's people were fine and stayed where they were--hoping for more beer.
You bought the bullshit--now you're simply making shit up, and tripping on your own imagination while you're at it.
Being that the diseases were so rampant in the east, they fled west, for a hundred years, to get away from the folk who gave it to them and thus gave it to other folk, until the folk who first gave it to them caught up with them gave to them again!

Sure, it's your cartoon show.

I didn't say they fled from diseases, though some probably did. They were pushed west over the course of a century by settlers and government. If even that simplest of analyses is beyond you to think about, then we have absolutely nothing to discuss.

The biggest initiator of Native Americans moving around North America was the Horse, not man. Native Americans first acquire the horse in numbers large enough to breed as a result of the first Pueblo Revolt, C. 1540. Within 50 years tribes as far north as Northern Alberta are using the horse to hunt Buffalo. The horse was transformed Native American life in a massive way. It made them far more productive in most their endeavors and caused massive movement in tribes traditional lands.