International sports bar

[Montegriffo]

Aw, you're still butthurt about Ben Johnson losing his medal.
Playing by the rules is being a puritan?
Sports are defined by their codes, or rules, break the rules and you are a cheat and no longer a sportsman.
If someone breaks a rule in hockey the referee penalises him. That applies to all sports.
If a soccer player picks the ball up and throws it into the goal does the goal stand? Of course not. Take illegal drugs and get caught you lose your medal and receive a ban.
Your opinion of the rules doesn't matter one little bit. If you want to make PEDs legal then join the regulating body and change the rules, otherwise STFU with your ''puritan'' bollocks.

[StCapps]

"Ban the best supplements, using them isn't fair even though I can't say why that is in a coherent way, if you disagree then you support cheating"
Fuck off monte, get better arguments or you are going to called out on your witch hunt. "It's a rule" isn't an argument and neither is "if you don't like the rules then change them or shut up". If a sport is going to have draconian rules against PED use, then I am going to call them out for it.

[Montegriffo]

I've already given several reasons why PEDs are damaging sports but it's not up to me to say why I agree with all the worlds sporting bodies. You are the outlier going against what the vast majority of sports fans and all the regulaters accept. You are the one who needs to produce a coherant argument to support changing the rules. Saying it is puritanical or draconian is not an argument it's an opinion at best.

[Ex-California]

I've already given several reasons why PEDs are damaging sports but it's not up to me to say why I agree with all the worlds sporting bodies. You are the outlier going against what the vast majority of sports fans and all the regulaters accept. You are the one who needs to produce a coherant argument to support changing the rules. Saying it is puritanical or draconian is not an argument it's an opinion at best.

Why are PEDs damaging sports?

Might as well restrict diets and exercise too, don't want any unfair advantage

[Montegriffo]

I've already given several reasons why PEDs are damaging sports but it's not up to me to say why I agree with all the worlds sporting bodies. You are the outlier going against what the vast majority of sports fans and all the regulaters accept. You are the one who needs to produce a coherant argument to support changing the rules. Saying it is puritanical or draconian is not an argument it's an opinion at best.

Why are PEDs damaging sports?

Might as well restrict diets and exercise too, don't want any unfair advantage

We have been through this before, it is not the same thing. It isn't just to do with unfair advantages over clean athletes, it is also a matter of the health of the drug takers. Not only the dangers of the PEDs but the strain on the body of pushing it past its natural limits in training and competition.


Ratings and sponsorship falls when people perceive a sport to be riddled with cheats.The reputation of the sport suffers, in some cases like wrestling it got so bad the sport was excluded from the Olympics until it cleaned its act up. Same with countries, the exclusion of Russia from Rio was the result of widespread drug cheats and many clean Russian athletes suffered as did the Olympics themselves.

[Ex-California]

I've already given several reasons why PEDs are damaging sports but it's not up to me to say why I agree with all the worlds sporting bodies. You are the outlier going against what the vast majority of sports fans and all the regulaters accept. You are the one who needs to produce a coherant argument to support changing the rules. Saying it is puritanical or draconian is not an argument it's an opinion at best.

Why are PEDs damaging sports?

Might as well restrict diets and exercise too, don't want any unfair advantage

We have been through this before, it is not the same thing. It isn't just to do with unfair advantages over clean athletes, it is also a matter of the health of the drug takers. Not only the dangers of the PEDs but the strain on the body of pushing it past its natural limits in training and competition.


Ratings and sponsorship falls when people perceive a sport to be riddled with cheats.The reputation of the sport suffers, in some cases like wrestling it got so bad the sport was excluded from the Olympics until it cleaned its act up. Same with countries, the exclusion of Russia from Rio was the result of widespread drug cheats and many clean Russian athletes suffered as did the Olympics themselves.

Its easily possible to push yourself past your "natural limits" with training alone
http://www.stack.com/a/rhabdomyolysis
http://www.mensfitness.com/training/pro ... w-avoid-it
https://www.mmamania.com/2013/5/23/4359 ... olysis-mma

As to your second point, that is patently false. Baseball was rising up to levels of popularity that it hadn't seen in 30-40 years post-strike in the 90s when the players started juicing and starting whole new home run races. Then the pearl clutchers started crying about "cheating," offense numbers dropped precipitously, and now the pitchers have such an advantage the game is slowing down, strikeouts are way up, ratings are dropping, and the powers-that-be are scrambling with what to do

[Montegriffo]

As to your second point, that is patently false. Baseball was rising up to levels of popularity that it hadn't seen in 30-40 years post-strike in the 90s when the players started juicing and starting whole new home run races. Then the pearl clutchers started crying about "cheating," offense numbers dropped precipitously, and now the pitchers have such an advantage the game is slowing down, strikeouts are way up, ratings are dropping, and the powers-that-be are scrambling with what to do

That sounds like a failure of the sport itself. If you can only get enjoyment from watching the batters skills and can't appreciate the skill of the bowlers then something is wrong. If you have to cheat to keep the fans interested you need a rule change not cheating. Make the ball bigger like they did in table tennis.
The fact that Gatlin was booed not only when he won but also during the medal ceremony shows that in atheletics the fans certainly don't want to see drugs in the sport.

[katarn]

I've already given several reasons why PEDs are damaging sports but it's not up to me to say why I agree with all the worlds sporting bodies. You are the outlier going against what the vast majority of sports fans and all the regulaters accept. You are the one who needs to produce a coherant argument to support changing the rules. Saying it is puritanical or draconian is not an argument it's an opinion at best.

Your idea has been that ratings drop off when cheats are caught. This would be because no one likes a cheat.

You guys are arguing past each other, though. The fans accept it because some higher-up banned PEDs. Ratings fall not because the athletes use a PED, but because the athletes cheated. If the PED wasn't banned, the ratings should not suffer so.

[Montegriffo]

I've already given several reasons why PEDs are damaging sports but it's not up to me to say why I agree with all the worlds sporting bodies. You are the outlier going against what the vast majority of sports fans and all the regulaters accept. You are the one who needs to produce a coherant argument to support changing the rules. Saying it is puritanical or draconian is not an argument it's an opinion at best.

Your idea has been that ratings drop off when cheats are caught. This would be because no one likes a cheat.

You guys are arguing past each other, though. The fans accept it because some higher-up banned PEDs. Ratings fall not because the athletes use a PED, but because the athletes cheated. If the PED wasn't banned, the ratings should not suffer so.

So we ignore the medical evidence about the dangers of PEDs, ignore the huge numbers of non professionals and teenagers influenced by professional users and just write off the deaths and long term medical conditions.
How many live TV deaths like that of Tom Simpson do you think audiences will accept?

Doping class Effect on performance Dangerous side-effects
Stimulants Make athletes more alert and mask fatigue Can cause heart failure, addictive
Anabolic agents - steroids Help athletes to train harder and build muscle Increased aggression and kidney damage
Diuretics Remove fluid from the body. Used :

to make the weight, eg in boxing
to hide other drug use

Causes severe dehydration
Narcotic analgesics Mask pain caused by injury or fatigue which can make the injury worse Addictive
Peptides and hormones

EPO (Erythropoietin) red blood cells - gives more energy

HGH (Human Growth Hormone) - build muscle


EPO - risk of stroke or heart problems.

HGH - abnormal growth, heart disease, diabetes, arthritis etc

I think most people accept PEDs are illegal for good reason and don't want them in sports, legal or not.

[StCapps]

The health risks are overstated, and come from abusing drugs by improperly taking them, the witch hunt against steroids and other PEDs is entirely political, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about monte. Pretending this all about athlete safety is bullshit, when you go to health risks, you've already lost the argument, you are just hater who hasn't looked into PED's at all, you listen to the idiotic sports media who tell you drugs are bad, even with no proof. You just think all PEDs are bad, yet all of them aren't even banned, only the ones with scary names, it's like "assault" moniker with guns.

You can't tell me why they let athletes take caffiene but steroids are no good, you have no reasoning you just point to a sporting body and see "they support my views and they are in the majority so they must be right, I can't tell you why they are right, even you can tell me why they are wrong, yet I still somehow win the argument in my own mind." Thanks for being just another idiotic sports fan talking out of his ass about PEDs, while virtually signaling his morale outrage at cheating, as if to say, if you don't virtue signal about being against cheating by hating on PEDs for no good reason, then you must support cheating.