The Chapel

[DrYouth]

Maybe I mistook the vibe.

EDIT: Upon further reflection, I'm an idiot. Carry on.

[Heraclius]

I meant that as a simplified version of the Euthyphro dilemma.

Is it good because god loves it, or does god love it because it is good?

If we just make good and divine interchangeable words, than we haven't really answered the question, we have just fudged the language.

All of this is about fudging language...
God is a word...
In the beginning there was the Word.
You could waste a lot of time splitting hairs about the words.

The spiritual quest is about living the good life... encountering the sacred... transcending the mundane.

That little dilemma of yours isn't really moving me along that path.

Has in inspired you in some way?

Oh, wait - it was Heraclius who brought up that dilemma, wasn't it?

It's not that the dilemma has inspired me, it's just that I find them interesting tests for internal contradictions within your beliefs. I would say the dilemma falls under the "encountering the sacred" part of your spiritual quest. While you are not actually finding the higher power, you are determining what kind of higher power it is that you believe in which allows you to gain a higher understanding of both yourself and the world around you.

[katarn]

How about Pascal's Wager?
http://www.iep.utm.edu/pasc-wag/

[TheReal_ND]

It's kind of a poor model for religious faith on the face of it because it's almost.... how do I say this for normal circles? Thrifty....

I prefer Marcus Aurelius' thoughts on it. Going to paraphrase here: "Better to live your life just and virtuous, for if there are gods they will be pleased, but if there are none you will still have led a virtuous life worth living."

[Heraclius]

How about Pascal's Wager?
http://www.iep.utm.edu/pasc-wag/

Pascal's Wager is best described as an economist's way of looking at faith.

[DrYouth]

It's kind of a poor model for religious faith on the face of it because it's almost.... how do I say this for normal circles? Thrifty....

I prefer Marcus Aurelius' thoughts on it. Going to paraphrase here: "Better to live your life just and virtuous, for if there are gods they will be pleased, but if there are none you will still have led a virtuous life worth living."

Good post Nuke.



Curious how you would say it for "less normal" circles?

[skankhunt42]

It's kind of a poor model for religious faith on the face of it because it's almost.... how do I say this for normal circles? Thrifty....

I prefer Marcus Aurelius' thoughts on it. Going to paraphrase here: "Better to live your life just and virtuous, for if there are gods they will be pleased, but if there are none you will still have led a virtuous life worth living."

Good post Nuke.



Curious how you would say it for "less normal" circles?

Seconded. I need a bumper sticker of that on my car.

[DrYouth]

It's almost the weekend - so time for an update from the Chapel...

Have any of you checked out Rene Girard?

I find his ideas pretty awesome.

If you want to check it out and have some time for podcasts - check out this 5 part series.

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/the-scape ... -1.3474195

According to French thinker René Girard, human beings copy each other's desires and are in perpetual conflict with one another over the objects of our desire. In early human communities, this conflict created a permanent threat of violence and forced our ancestors to find a way to unify themselves. They chose a victim, a scapegoat against whom the community could unite. Biblical religion, according to Girard, has attempted to overcome this historic plight. From the unjust murder of Abel by his brother Cain to the crucifixion of Christ, the Bible reveals the innocence of the victim. It is on this revelation that modern society unquietly rests.

[katarn]

I introduced this at the old place, but election stuff buried it a bit before I though justice was done in discussion.

The Kalam Argument (Simple Version)
1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause
2. If the universe began to exist, it had a cause
3. The universe began to exist (based on most current data and theory)
4. The universe had a cause
4a. That cause must be without properties introduced inside the universe, like time
5. That cause has supreme power as relates to the universe
6. This cause has the properties of a deity
Conclusion: If the universe began to exist, there is some extrauniversal deity that is eternal and omnipotent

[TheReal_ND]

I like this.