NHL 2017 -Official Discussion Thread

[StCapps]

No, you just don't analyze the play, based on your prattling, it's all "sucks", "chokers", "bums", blah-blah-blah, objectively, you're not analyzing the Leafs, you clearly have no idea whay you're talking about, you're just hurling random insults at them, which bear no resemblance to the team nor how they played.

You just want to talk about all their strong points and downplay their weaknesses. I am objectively discussing things, you are just mad I'm focusing on their holes to prove they aren't that good. I get it they have great special teams, a dope top 9, they play a fast run and gun style, and when teams play their game, they can be scrappy as fuck and play with even the best run and gun teams.

That's doesn't mean they are one of the best teams in the league, it means they have some things they are really good at, but it's not enough to cover their flaws against elite teams, because they aren't elite.

I know how the Leafs play, you patronizing douche. You may watch more Leafs games than me, but apparently that doesn't translate into actual perspective on how good they are. Decades of being shit have ruined your perspective and lead to wishful thinking the minute it looks like things are beginning to turn around. Slow your roll, you have plenty to cheer about without over the top embellishment.

[Smitty-48]

Things have turned, objectively, after decades of things never changing, It's not wishfull thinking when there is a sudden and comprehensive change across the board, doesn't guaruntee the Leafs anything, I'm not making predictions, but to say that the Leafs haven't turned the franchise around, turned it from a laughing stock to a model franchise, in just three years, is objectively incorrect, objectively, they have, by any measure.

I'm not wishfully thinking, the team is good already, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Babcock, Lamoriello, Shanahan, have turned the franchise into a comer, it's not me saying it, it's the whole league saying it.

[StCapps]

Things have turned, objectively, after decades of things never changing, It's not wishfull thinking when there is a sudden and comprehensive change across the board, doesn't guaruntee the Leafs anything, I'm not making predictions, but to say that the Leafs haven't turned the franchise around, turned it from a laughing stock to a model franchise, in just three years, is objectively incorrect, objectively, they have, by any measure.

I'm not wishfully thinking, the team is good already, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Babcock, Lamoriello, Shanahan, have turned the franchise into a comer, it's not me saying it, it's the whole league saying it.

I'm not saying they haven't begun to turn things around or that they aren't well on track to eventually be one of the best teams in the league. I'm just saying there is a long way to go, year two of the five year Shanaplan and all, and the team is not some well rounded machine that has no weaknesses. It's not onbe of the top teams in the league yet, they probably will be soon, especially if they can really start to improve that defense of theirs. If they don't improve that defense from where they are now, they will begin to plateau though, not that Shanahan, Lamoriello and Babcock aren't well aware of this.

The Front Office, The Coaching, The Prospects, these things will lead you to a bright future, I'm just pointing out the obvious part of the team that needs the most work, and that's clearly defense, I have no idea why you are protesting as if you don't already know this when you clearly do. There's a reason you're so keen on having the Leafs draft defencemen going forward, and it's not because it's the best part of the team. You also crap on Freddie Anderson more than I do, yet when I say the Leafs are fairly one dimensional and they aren't one the best teams in hockey, for some reason you say I have no objective analysis. Very odd.

[Smitty-48]

All the teams have weaknesses, there are no teams in the cap era, which are stocked from top to bottom, all the teams rely on the franchise players to carry them and seperate from the pack, objectively, the Leafs have three franchise players, which are already seperating them from the pack, the fourth best offensive team in the league, 251 goals for, the second best power play, the thrid best penalty kill, 95 points, is one of the best teams in the league, objectively, particularly when the source is 3 already franchise players, at 19 years of age, coached by the best coach in the game.

It's not that far away, by any objective measure, one or two players, and this is a contender, it's not wishfull thinking, that's just the process taking effect, with the hit on a lottery pick for a generational player of course, but that's the process that all contenders rely on.

[StCapps]

It's not that far away, by any objective measure, one or two players, and this is a contender, it's not wishfull thinking, that's just the process taking effect, with the hit on a lottery pick for a generational player of course, but that's the process that all contenders rely on.

If those two players are high quality top four defensemen, then yeah you are two players and some Morgan Reilly development away. A better goalie would be nice too, if you can swing it, then you'd be a perennial cup contender. I'm just saying if you think adding another two forwards, or just a goalie, is going to get you over the hump, it isn't. The goalie alone might put you in "cinderella run" territory, but without the two high quality top four defensemen it won't be sustainable. I'm sure your management already knows this better than I do, these things just take time. Hard to build a defense almost from scratch.

[Smitty-48]

Meh, you don't need a Roman Josi or whoever to be a contender, it can be done by commitee; the Leafs are on the Penguins model, get the puck up the ice to the forwards, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, by any means neccesary, the defensive upgrade is more about team defense, it's all about puck management as a group, Babcock will teach them to play a posession game, he's already making progress that way, from the beginning of the year to the playoffs, they made huge strides, next year they will be better, right out of the gate, and they will get better as they go.

Babcock's greatest asset is his teaching, he makes the players better, by a process, and that process is sound, it's a hollistic and systematic approach, which I am confident is going to pay off, which again, doesn't win them anything in of itself, but they will be contending, and it won't be that long.

They can get some more defensemen, but they don't have to be Norris Trophy winners, its more about the system, there are teams which have defenceman like that, who aren't actually going anywhere, I'd like to have Aaron Ekblad, but I don't think Florida is better than the Leafs, I'd like to have Oliver Ekman-Larsson, but I don't think Arizona is better than the Leafs neither.

The thing is, Shanahan is hungry, he's not going jump the gun in terms of not sticking with the process, but he is not satifisfied to be middling, he is here to win a championship, and he's not on the 15 year rebuild plan, they're shooting to win, and sooner rather later. They will do whatever it takes, I'm quite confident that Shanahan & Co are going to pull out all the stops.

When the Leafs ran things Leafy, they were going nowhere, but now that they have completely flipped that on its head, they are going to be a contender, there's no doubt about that, whether or not they will get the luck they need to have decent cup runs and win it all, that requires the bounces to go your way, but they will be in the running for it, there's no way they won't be.

I think the Leafs will be better than the Preds are, would I trade the Leafs depth chart right now, for the Predators depth chart right now? Not a chance, because I think the Preds window is closing, right now, while the Leafs window is opening, and the Leafs will be better than the Preds, by the beginning of the 2018-19, because Pekka Rinne is going to retire, and the Preds have nothing in the pipeline, they have Josi, they have Forsberg, and going forward, that's about it, and I wouldn't trade Matthews, Marner and Nylander, for Josi and Forsberg.

Josi is the only player on the Preds who would be hard to get, the rest of that team is a dime a dozen, even PK Subban, he's so overpaid now, I don't know if anybody would take him off their hands, you might want a declining Subban, but not at $9 million, if they don't move him this summer, they will be stuck with him, unless they were prepared to retain salary, he is no longer a $9 million player, not even close, this is why the Habs wanted to be rid of him.

Don't get me wrong, I like PK, but giving him the Norris was a joke, he's not that good and never was, and if you're going to pay a defenceman $9 million, it better be an Erik Karlsson, which PK ain't. Whatever deal Nashville is getting on Roman Josi, that is now being offset by vaslty overpaying PK, so it's a wash. PK's just getting Josi's money and Josi is getting paid like PK should be.

[SilverEagle]

Nah, the Leafs took the President's Trophy winners to six games, came one goal away in overtime from a game seven, Washington just had the big forwards who could pound the Leafs down low, which is the Leafs achilles heel, but the run n' gun game the Predators play, the Leafs can beat anybody that style.

One problem Smitty....the Leafs would've had to go thru the Pens. It's now the Pens Cup to lose.

[Fife]

What a night. I enjoyed reading the bantz Cappy and Smits. I learn a lot of hockey that way. I also learned that at about 0.15 BAC Smits goes total Leafs homer. :goteam: :drunk:

So, is all the Pens have to do tonight is mail it in?

[SilverEagle]

What a night. I enjoyed reading the bantz Cappy and Smits. I learn a lot of hockey that way. I also learned that at about 0.15 BAC Smits goes total Leafs homer. :goteam: :drunk:

So, is all the Pens have to do tonight is mail it in?

No. The Sens will put up a hell of a fight but the Pens have seemed to figure out how to beat that stupid 1-3-1 trap that the Sens love to run...even when they are down 5 goals. Murray is looking great in net for the Pens and I don't think the Sens have enough fire power to overcome the situation. 75% chance the Pens win game six.

[StCapps]

Someone is sleeping on Mattias Ekholm and Ryan Ellis on the cheap. You'd figure they wouldn't because the Leafs would be a contender if they had two extra defensemen of that quality at that price tag, but somehow they find a way to overlook them to pretend the Leafs are better than they are. Going forward bright future, better long term window than the Preds, but right now the Preds are way better than the Leafs, and I was talking about right now.

Smitty wants to talk about the Leafs top strengths, how big of an upgrade they've gotten in coaching and management, the upside and the future. I was talking about right this second, as currently constructed.