THE ERA OF TRUMP

[SuburbanFarmer]

This is what happens when you try to contain all possible political ideologies in a 2-party system.

We need about 4 more parties, for this to make any sense. Instead, the establishment will ride their gravy train straight into totalitarian nightmare-land.

[Alexander PhiAlipson]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpos ... 60c57249d4

Democrats think they have set the stage to block President Trump’s legislative priorities for years to come by winning major concessions in a spending bill to keep the government open.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) secured nearly $5 billion in new domestic spending by exploiting disagreements between Trump and GOP lawmakers over spending priorities.

Democrats’ lopsided victory on the five-month deal, which is likely to be approved this week, means it will be very difficult — if not impossible — for the GOP to exert its will in future budget negotiations, including when it comes to Trump’s 2018 budget blueprint.

That’s because Republicans are hopelessly divided over how much to spend on government programs, with a small but vocal minority unwilling to support such measures at all. That has forced Republicans to work with Democrats to avoid politically damaging government shutdowns.

And that means Democrats are in the driver’s seat when it comes to budget battles, even with Trump in the White House.

What a disaster the Republicans in Congress have become/are continuing to be.

I hope Trump refuses to sign it. Shut the government down. A lot of the Republicans only got elected or re-elected because of Trump.

[Speaker to Animals]

We don't contain all the possible ideologies in two parties. We have two parties that stand-in for a coalition of voters. Most of the people who voted for Trump probably couldn't care less about the issues these Congressional republicans think are important. They voted against the democrats and the coalition of voters that supported them this time around.

Indeed, many of the voters in this recent republican coalition were part of the coalition that voted for the democrats in the past two presidential cycles.

I think our system is superior in that the coalitions happen in the electorate rather than the legislative body. A parliamentary system I find inferior to our own because the electorate can influence such coalitions only indirectly. The coalitions happen between the elected officials rather than the voters.

Both groups of party faithfuls will always screw the pooch by pushing their ideology over the wishes of the people who elected them. That happens in parliamentary systems too, even with half a dozen parties at play. But because of this, they can't really do quite as much as they'd like, and a lot of the egregious shit they do gets undone down the line (which is why the left right now is throwing a collective tantrum).

[Speaker to Animals]

That said, it's totally true that, if the GOP were run by more intelligent men, they could clean up right now. Give their voters what those voters want rather than what their donors want. I guarantee most of the people who voted for Trump would support an abolishing of Obamacare coupled with a Medicare for everybody who cannot get insurance through their job. The republicans could take that issue from the democrats and clean up throughout the next election cycles. If they actually did what Trump campaigned on with respect to immigration, they'd also clean house. The media paints a false picture of where Americans stand on immigration. Most polls and common sense show that the vast majority of Americans HATE illegal immigration. Most Americans would prefer we reduce immigration to recover from the long decline in real income.

You could theoretically destroy the democratic party if you pursued what Americans mostly want. But to do that, Trump would need to become the guy we saw in the previous campaign rather than what he has become, and he would have to start fighting both republicans and democrats. It doesn't matter if they are deadlocked now. He could campaign against every republican who opposes him with a primary challenger and probably unseat half of them no problem. In the primaries he loses, he could back the democrat in the general election if the democrat would support him on just one of those two issues I listed.

He could do and say things that would encourage the democrats to foolishly put the worst possible politicians in charge of the party. They already have Pelosi fucking things up. They could be pushed into nominating a complete dingbat like Warren for president simply because she is a woman. It's difficult to actually reform the GOP, but not so difficult for a guy like Trump to sabotage the democratic party.

But he can't or won't do that. I suspect the real problem is the deep state.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Do you honestly think that "destroying" one of the 2 parties in this country is a good thing, or winning somehow?

Even for Republicans, that would be disastrous. They'd be fighting a hornet's nest of ideas, and be destroyed themselves without a 'main opponent' to be against.

[Speaker to Animals]

Do you honestly think that "destroying" one of the 2 parties in this country is a good thing, or winning somehow?

Even for Republicans, that would be disastrous. They'd be fighting a hornet's nest of ideas, and be destroyed themselves without a 'main opponent' to be against.

Yes. I think destroying the democratic party would preserve the viability of our nation. Otherwise, I don't think the republic has much life left in it.

There would still be something to replace it. The whigs had to be destroyed for similar reasons, though I think the democrats were even then the far greater threat (and they proved it by declaring war because they didn't like the result of an election.. sound familiar?).

[apeman]

What a disaster the Republicans in Congress have become/are continuing to be.

Not really sure what being a Republican means at this point.

Antiabortion? Retirement? Flag Burning Amendment? Really, I don't know what Republicanism is anymore? The Libertarians need to take over that Party.

I had hoped Trump would burn down the rot in the R party. Looked like he might, IMO Trump became a regular old Republican the day he bombed Syria to much media fanfare, Trump loved the positive attention finally, and fell right back into the fold. We will now see less and less of the Trump that people voted for, until we never see it again.

[adwinistrator]

That said, it's totally true that, if the GOP were run by more intelligent men, they could clean up right now. Give their voters what those voters want rather than what their donors want. I guarantee most of the people who voted for Trump would support an abolishing of Obamacare coupled with a Medicare for everybody who cannot get insurance through their job. The republicans could take that issue from the democrats and clean up throughout the next election cycles. If they actually did what Trump campaigned on with respect to immigration, they'd also clean house. The media paints a false picture of where Americans stand on immigration. Most polls and common sense show that the vast majority of Americans HATE illegal immigration. Most Americans would prefer we reduce immigration to recover from the long decline in real income.

You could theoretically destroy the democratic party if you pursued what Americans mostly want. But to do that, Trump would need to become the guy we saw in the previous campaign rather than what he has become, and he would have to start fighting both republicans and democrats. It doesn't matter if they are deadlocked now. He could campaign against every republican who opposes him with a primary challenger and probably unseat half of them no problem. In the primaries he loses, he could back the democrat in the general election if the democrat would support him on just one of those two issues I listed.

He could do and say things that would encourage the democrats to foolishly put the worst possible politicians in charge of the party. They already have Pelosi fucking things up. They could be pushed into nominating a complete dingbat like Warren for president simply because she is a woman. It's difficult to actually reform the GOP, but not so difficult for a guy like Trump to sabotage the democratic party.

But he can't or won't do that. I suspect the real problem is the deep state.

Both parties are far too entrenched to pivot on the issues they should. From what I can tell, it's all Boomers holding power, Gen-X needs to push them out and re-evaluate their purpose from the ground up.

You say 'deep state', I don't what that means, as some people mean basic bureaucratic institutional foot dragging, while others mean secret CIA/Obama/Soros coup...

From what I'm seeing, the #1 group that's stopping Trump from pursuing his agenda is the 'Freedom Caucus". They want to play their hand and threaten the GOP majority by using their voting block as leverage, but for now it seems to be doing more harm than good...

In reality, Trump needs the GOP to accomplish anything, and he needs their protection in Congress. If the GOP decided Trump was more trouble than he's worth, they're the ones who decide if they'd rather have pence. The House impeached Clinton over lying under oath about a BJ, they could just as easily dig up some illegal activities from his businesses, his campaign, etc.

[apeman]

Do you honestly think that "destroying" one of the 2 parties in this country is a good thing, or winning somehow?

Even for Republicans, that would be disastrous. They'd be fighting a hornet's nest of ideas, and be destroyed themselves without a 'main opponent' to be against.

So disastrous. The Republicans have ZERO serious solutions to any particular problem, as they have proven beyond a doubt since seizing the Executive and Legislative branches. This was obvious the moment the entire party could offer no healthcare ideas. All that time to brainstorm, troubleshoot, strategize, all that time railing against Obamacare, then the moment comes, and the R plan contains no ideas nor solutions.

As I have said, the political parties are DONE solving problems.

[ssu]

I guarantee most of the people who voted for Trump would support an abolishing of Obamacare coupled with a Medicare for everybody who cannot get insurance through their job.

Yep.

Trump was a missed opportunity. An outrageous populist who could deliver would have been wellcome as there was a window of opportunity to really shake up the GOP. Once he did give them the election win, that was the time to take the lead of the rag-tag group called the Republicans. But as Trump is as inept as he is, that naturally didn't happen. He didn't form a "Trumpian" middle that could have gotten things done. And now he's learning that things are difficult (or that the GOP has various factions, etc) and hence he's lost the initiative.

The truth is that the voters of any party are actually far less ideological about their stance as the most vocal ideologues in the party.