Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

[nmoore63]

Also, the idea that charging any interest at all is bad for society is not even close to accurate.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Without interest allowed on any loans.. there wouldn't be any loans. There also wouldn't be any inflation, and we'd be on the Gold standard forever.

WWI would have ended a hell of a lot sooner, probably with a truce, when both sides ran out of money... Hard to imagine how different things would be by now. We might be a hell of a lot happier in general. No reason we couldn't produce all of the tech that we have, just not the mass industrial stuff...

[Speaker to Animals]

Usury in general is a really bad idea, and I mean usury in the actual sense of the word: all interest. But that's still a separate topic. Payday Loans are not usurious simply because they are high interests. They are high interest because of the risk involved in lending to poor people with really bad credit. All interest has terrible side effects on society, however, not just payday loans, and I would add the kinds of usury inflicting the most damage is charged by BANKS (i.e. student loans, mortgages, etc).

Usury doesn't mean all interest.

(at least if we are talking Catholic Canon Law)

It does. Go read St. Thomas, canon law, and several encyclicals on the matter. We already discussed this. If you still don't get it, I can't do anything else for you.

[nmoore63]

Without interest allowed on any loans.. there wouldn't be any loans. There also wouldn't be any inflation, and we'd be on the Gold standard forever.

WWI would have ended a hell of a lot sooner, probably with a truce, when both sides ran out of money... Hard to imagine how different things would be by now. We might be a hell of a lot happier in general. No reason we couldn't produce all of the tech that we have, just not the mass industrial stuff...

The number of inventions, discoveries, business ventures that were created through direct loan, or otherwise they supported themselves through such over the centuries is incredibly vast.

The number of customers I have everyday that only have working refrigeration because I float the money is large a well.
(3 months interest free, 1.5% after that) The idea that I am taking advantage of them is truly go fuck-yourself laughable.

[nmoore63]

Usury in general is a really bad idea, and I mean usury in the actual sense of the word: all interest. But that's still a separate topic. Payday Loans are not usurious simply because they are high interests. They are high interest because of the risk involved in lending to poor people with really bad credit. All interest has terrible side effects on society, however, not just payday loans, and I would add the kinds of usury inflicting the most damage is charged by BANKS (i.e. student loans, mortgages, etc).

Usury doesn't mean all interest.

(at least if we are talking Catholic Canon Law)

It does. Go read St. Thomas, canon law, and several encyclicals on the matter. We already discussed this. If you still don't get it, I can't do anything else for you.

Nope.


https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print ... e-on-usury

In other words, Catholic teaching still holds that usury is morally impermissible, but it does not follow from this (and the Church never did teach) that any charge above principle on a loan is always wrong.

[Speaker to Animals]

Usury doesn't mean all interest.

(at least if we are talking Catholic Canon Law)

It does. Go read St. Thomas, canon law, and several encyclicals on the matter. We already discussed this. If you still don't get it, I can't do anything else for you.

Nope.


https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print ... e-on-usury

In other words, Catholic teaching still holds that usury is morally impermissible, but it does not follow from this (and the Church never did teach) that any charge above principle on a loan is always wrong.

YES

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15235c.htm

A lot of shitty Catholics who make money through theft like to muddy the water, but it's pretty clearly wrong.

[K@th]

The number of customers I have everyday that only have working refrigeration because I float the money is large a well.
(3 months interest free, 1.5% after that) The idea that I am taking advantage of them is truly go fuck-yourself laughable.

Ridiculously generous terms.

[Speaker to Animals]

Without interest allowed on any loans.. there wouldn't be any loans. There also wouldn't be any inflation, and we'd be on the Gold standard forever.

WWI would have ended a hell of a lot sooner, probably with a truce, when both sides ran out of money... Hard to imagine how different things would be by now. We might be a hell of a lot happier in general. No reason we couldn't produce all of the tech that we have, just not the mass industrial stuff...

You'd still be able to get the mass production too. It's done through venture capital in which the "lender" is repaid with a stake in the production he is lending toward. If he makes a bad loan, and the business fails, then he loses his money. Thus he has an interest only to make loans to viable businesses. This means a lot of business failures would not occur because shitty business ideas would get zero funding. Good ideas, like the expansion of Apple into the smart phone market, would get plenty of capital, no doubt.

[nmoore63]

It does. Go read St. Thomas, canon law, and several encyclicals on the matter. We already discussed this. If you still don't get it, I can't do anything else for you.

Nope.


https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print ... e-on-usury

In other words, Catholic teaching still holds that usury is morally impermissible, but it does not follow from this (and the Church never did teach) that any charge above principle on a loan is always wrong.

YES

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15235c.htm

A lot of shitty Catholics who make money through theft like to muddy the water, but it's pretty clearly wrong.

Um....

You didn't actually read that did you?

The Holy See admits practically the lawfulness of interest on loans

Thank you for providing another source that confirms that any level of interest on a load in not the definition usury.

[Speaker to Animals]

Just from a moral perspective, you can sort of see that it's a moral evil in the way that it creates a coercive effect (like most moral evils) in which we all eventually get pulled into participating with it when it is tolerated by a society. Usury just grows and grows until it collapses an economy and a society along with it. A small group of people can only keep stealing from future production for so long before there is nothing left to steal and the house of cards collapses on itself.