A Graceless coup

[Speaker to Animals]

You're correct. A peaceful transformation to a modern state will take at least a century, probably more.

With endemic corruption, sickness, and poverty it will be a very long time to "naturally" occur.

But again, if a strong man took over several resource rich African states and brutally instituted modernization, it could happen within a generation.... with many deaths. With a net positive if measured in a timeframe of 200 years.

However the international community would stop it... so it won't happen.

You are under the assumption that this end state looks like the western world. They are a completely different group of humans with subtly different biases to how they socially organize. Those subtle differences scale up to big differences when you begin to talk about civilizations.

If you want sub-Saharan Africans to create their own civilization, you have to let them figure out how to get passed the Malthusian trap on their own for one thing. You have to let them figure out how to scale up their social biases to the level of civilizations. The African civilizations in the past were nothing like our own. They have their own way of doing things, and as long as we interfere and try to make them into little westerners, they will perpetually be stunted like we see today.

What is happening in this case, in particular, is that the white population artificially elevated the blacks beyond the Malthusian trap. When you removed the whites from the equation, food yields plummeted. They can't handle this shit. There is more to it than people realize. Everybody on Earth has access to knowledge about how to organize a society and boost food yields, but if their social structures cannot support that, then they aren't getting there.

[heydaralon]

I like how all you guys had Mugabe's back when he hooked you up with those farms, but now that its "cool" to diss him, you guys jumped on the haterade drinking train. Talk about "Frenemies." Makes me sick, this board.

[TheReal_ND]

I never liked that subhuman. He never hooked anyone up with a farm he begged whites to come back to what was once their home.

[Viktorthepirate]

You're correct. A peaceful transformation to a modern state will take at least a century, probably more.

With endemic corruption, sickness, and poverty it will be a very long time to "naturally" occur.

But again, if a strong man took over several resource rich African states and brutally instituted modernization, it could happen within a generation.... with many deaths. With a net positive if measured in a timeframe of 200 years.

However the international community would stop it... so it won't happen.

You are under the assumption that this end state looks like the western world. They are a completely different group of humans with subtly different biases to how they socially organize. Those subtle differences scale up to big differences when you begin to talk about civilizations.

If you want sub-Saharan Africans to create their own civilization, you have to let them figure out how to get passed the Malthusian trap on their own for one thing. You have to let them figure out how to scale up their social biases to the level of civilizations. The African civilizations in the past were nothing like our own. They have their own way of doing things, and as long as we interfere and try to make them into little westerners, they will perpetually be stunted like we see today.

What is happening in this case, in particular, is that the white population artificially elevated the blacks beyond the Malthusian trap. When you removed the whites from the equation, food yields plummeted. They can't handle this shit. There is more to it than people realize. Everybody on Earth has access to knowledge about how to organize a society and boost food yields, but if their social structures cannot support that, then they aren't getting there.

That's a really good point. Perhaps in many ways they are too culturally alien.

However I think you can ram it through with the right leader.

The strongmen who initially took over after the whites were booted out weren't some brilliant psychopaths, they were self indulgent thugs.

Mao's Great Leap Forward killed more people than hitler and failed miserably but they learned from it.

Stalin's various purges, modernization plans, etc... killed about about as Hitler's invasion did, but they had the industry to survive the Nazi attack when it arrived.

China's culture was very hostile to western influences but took them on so that they could become a modern nation and defend themselves.

If you had a brilliant psychopath willing to spend millions of lives, I think it could happen.

[TheReal_ND]

And another thing, it's not like apartheid was ever about genocide of the "local population" (mostly not native to the area tribes,) that were having birth rates that were easily three standards of deviation higher than any Boer's during the height of apartheid. That's just ludicrous.

[Viktorthepirate]

And another thing, it's not like apartheid was ever about genocide of the "local population" (mostly not native to the area tribes,) that were having birth rates that were easily three standards of deviation higher than any Boer's during the height of apartheid. That's just ludicrous.

People have argued it was genocide?

That's nonsense. Cruel Subjugation... making someone a foreigner in their own ancestral lands is better description. But definitely not purposeful extermination.

[Ph64]

And another thing, it's not like apartheid was ever about genocide of the "local population" (mostly not native to the area tribes,) that were having birth rates that were easily three standards of deviation higher than any Boer's during the height of apartheid. That's just ludicrous.

When 3/4 of your kids starve to death you have to have more kids to have people to grow food.. Of course the reason you don't have enough food is because you're having too many kids, but that thought requires logic.

[TheReal_ND]

And another thing, it's not like apartheid was ever about genocide of the "local population" (mostly not native to the area tribes,) that were having birth rates that were easily three standards of deviation higher than any Boer's during the height of apartheid. That's just ludicrous.

People have argued it was genocide?

That's nonsense. Cruel Subjugation... making someone a foreigner in their own ancestral lands is better description. But definitely not purposeful extermination.

It was compared to claims of white countries being demographically replaced being called white genocide when apartheid was never ever a demographic replacement. Whites had moved into a nearly vacant area and the population sky rocketed under them.

And the Bantu never felt like a foreigner in their own lands. They were largely and still are thankful for the Boer's wars with the Zulu. The Bantu love white people.

[heydaralon]

I never liked that subhuman. He never hooked anyone up with a farm he begged whites to come back to what was once their home.

You wish you could inflate currency half as good as Bob. That dude made Zimbabwe so much money that they were using semi trucks to deliver money to the gas stations.

[TheReal_ND]

I think I actually have some Zimbabwe currency from my CIA uncle. He gave me dosh from all over the world.