CA Minimum Wage is Bad for Workers? Inconceivable!!

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SuburbanFarmer
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Re: CA Minimum Wage is Bad for Workers? Inconceivable!!

Post by SuburbanFarmer » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 pm

Okeefenokee wrote:They need to have one of the shows where people switch places, except instead of the ceo coming down to the floor, the floor worker has to go up to the office and realize he is on no way capable of doing the ceo's job. that's the problem here. everyone thinks, "why does he get paid so much? i could do that."
They really should do that. Hey, I think they did!!!

http://www.cbs.com/shows/undercover_boss/

Oh, but that's the other direction, you'll say. Ok, give the floor worker basic training equivalent to what the CEO got in their first week on the job, and watch it happen. No, your typically under-educated slob won't be able to handle it, but anyone from lower management up would be just fine.
SJWs are a natural consequence of corporatism.

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Re: CA Minimum Wage is Bad for Workers? Inconceivable!!

Post by Okeefenokee » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:09 pm

California wrote:
Okeefenokee wrote:They need to have one of the shows where people switch places, except instead of the ceo coming down to the floor, the floor worker has to go up to the office and realize he is on no way capable of doing the ceo's job. that's the problem here. everyone thinks, "why does he get paid so much? i could do that."
They'd never make that show because the floor worker would do just fine.

He might not be able to smooth talk and play golf as well, but the day to day decisions would be better from someone who actually does the production
yeah, sure boss. dont tell anyone. its a secret.
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

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apeman
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Re: CA Minimum Wage is Bad for Workers? Inconceivable!!

Post by apeman » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:09 pm

GrumpyCatFace wrote:Do you suppose that an executive/CEO is 300x more effective in any way than his employees?
Some are worth it, yes. Bear with me, let me play devil's advocate for a minute:

You have no idea what these fortune 500 CEOs do, they wake up at like 4 a.m. and start multitasking like cyborg freaks. You basically have to be an uber-committed psychopath to even perform these jobs - neither of us could do it, no one here could do it (maybe Martin when he was younger, due in part to his Mormon training, shit makes you a cyborg overachiever somehow, hopefully he'll chime in on this theory).

These people are the leaders of massive enterprises. The enterprises -- many of which rival the power of freakin' countries -- place a tremendous value on their leaders, as they should. There is much competition between enterprises to hire away the best leaders from competition -- what is more important to an enterprises' future than the "best" leader? What would Apple be without Jobs, etc? Of course there is a bidding war for the "top talent".

Now, I find the pay shocking and absurd too, but my career has led me to meet various people who run large successful enterprises in NYC, and I have come to recognize that we are talking about a unique (read: low supply, high demand, i.e. high price) type of individual. I have come to suspect that my personal subjective feelings about value are not more accurate than the actual market price paid to these individuals.

That being said, you can just point to Marissa Mayer at yahoo to show my post is only part of the truth.

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Re: CA Minimum Wage is Bad for Workers? Inconceivable!!

Post by Kazmyr » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:13 pm

GrumpyCatFace wrote:
Oh, but that's the other direction, you'll say. Ok, give the floor worker basic training equivalent to what the CEO got in their first week on the job, and watch it happen. No, your typically under-educated slob won't be able to handle it, but anyone from lower management up would be just fine.
GCF hath spoken. :roll:

I can tell you in the corporate environments I've been in the past 5 years or so, anyone from lower management up would NOT be fine. It's more than just job training.

Stop making generalizations. Things aren't nearly as simplistic as you're making them out to be.
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Re: CA Minimum Wage is Bad for Workers? Inconceivable!!

Post by apeman » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:18 pm

GCF, have you ever been in the presence of someone with legitmate authority, i.e. authority that comes from just being better, smarter, harder working, than everyone else? Someone who is a natural leader? Someone who handles adversity so amazingly well that when they get involved you just know the project is gonna work out OK?

These people actually exist. We aren't all equally capable. There are those among us who are, for lack of better word, special. I think Hash calls 'em meta, but maybe not.

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Re: CA Minimum Wage is Bad for Workers? Inconceivable!!

Post by Okeefenokee » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:19 pm

GrumpyCatFace wrote:
Okeefenokee wrote:They need to have one of the shows where people switch places, except instead of the ceo coming down to the floor, the floor worker has to go up to the office and realize he is on no way capable of doing the ceo's job. that's the problem here. everyone thinks, "why does he get paid so much? i could do that."
They really should do that. Hey, I think they did!!!

http://www.cbs.com/shows/undercover_boss/

Oh, but that's the other direction, you'll say. Ok, give the floor worker basic training equivalent to what the CEO got in their first week on the job, and watch it happen. No, your typically under-educated slob won't be able to handle it, but anyone from lower management up would be just fine.
in a low competition scene, someone from management probably could hold it together, if you picked the right person, but just anybody? no.

in high competition cut throat business, no. not a chance. and that's being generous and getting people with management experience. i said floor workers.
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

viewtopic.php?p=60751#p60751

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Re: CA Minimum Wage is Bad for Workers? Inconceivable!!

Post by Kazmyr » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:25 pm

apeman wrote:GCF, have you ever been in the presence of someone with legitmate authority, i.e. authority that comes from just being better, smarter, harder working, than everyone else? Someone who is a natural leader? Someone who handles adversity so amazingly well that when they get involved you just know the project is gonna work out OK?

These people actually exist. We aren't all equally capable. There are those among us who are, for lack of better word, special. I think Hash calls 'em meta, but maybe not.
I'm sure he sees it in the mirror everyday. Image
Martin Hash wrote:Liberty allows people to get their jollies any way they want. Just don't expect to masturbate with my lotion.

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Re: CA Minimum Wage is Bad for Workers? Inconceivable!!

Post by SuburbanFarmer » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:28 pm

apeman wrote:GCF, have you ever been in the presence of someone with legitmate authority, i.e. authority that comes from just being better, smarter, harder working, than everyone else? Someone who is a natural leader? Someone who handles adversity so amazingly well that when they get involved you just know the project is gonna work out OK?

These people actually exist. We aren't all equally capable. There are those among us who are, for lack of better word, special. I think Hash calls 'em meta, but maybe not.
I've met a few people that genuinely impressed me with leadership, capability, and presence. People that i wanted to follow.
One was a county judge, another a middle-manager for a tech firm, a martial arts instructor, a math professor, and another is, of course, my father.

Put those people at the top of the corporate pyramid, lock them in a pretty office, and tell them to go. They'll have contact with maybe 5 executives on a daily basis, and assorted assistants, and of course the shareholders. They have a COO to handle the company, CTO that does all of the tech, and so on and so on. All of that leadership skill is being used to inspire 5-10 people, and to make deals, with little or no concept of what's happening on the ground. You could do that with any decent conman off the street (which is exactly what most of them are).

And yes, of course, I'm not talking about Elon Musk here. There are degrees of value, certainly. But let's stop pretending that CEOs and Executives are some sort of Special Breed of Human that deserves way WAYYYYY the FUCK more money than other workers in a company. Nobody 'deserves' a $50 million bonus. Nobody. The banksters were taking home more than that, in the wake of the TARP bailout. Yet, though it boggles my mind, our society remains in service to them. I need a Tylenol, this shit makes me crazy to think about.
SJWs are a natural consequence of corporatism.

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Re: CA Minimum Wage is Bad for Workers? Inconceivable!!

Post by apeman » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:32 pm

GrumpyCatFace wrote: Nobody 'deserves' a $50 million bonus. Nobody.
"Deserves" is a very interesting choice of words. Major red flag.

There is no such things as deserves, or fair.

There is what people are voluntarily willing to pay for your services, and what they aren't.

I wonder -- how much pay do YOU deserve?

Edit: banksters getting massive bonuses after TARP is grounds for lynching.

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Re: CA Minimum Wage is Bad for Workers? Inconceivable!!

Post by SuburbanFarmer » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:39 pm

apeman wrote:
GrumpyCatFace wrote: Nobody 'deserves' a $50 million bonus. Nobody.
"Deserves" is a very interesting choice of words. Major red flag.

There is no such things as deserves, or fair.

There is what people are voluntarily willing to pay for your services, and what they aren't.

I wonder -- how much pay do YOU deserve?
If our society does not value fairness, then just mow down poor people and anyone else you don't like. There's no basis for any law, except 'fairness' or dogma. If we're going full mercenary here, then it will not be pretty.

I seem to be paid based on the barest minimum that I'll accept. As are you, most likely.
Edit: banksters getting massive bonuses after TARP is grounds for lynching.
Thank you. At least we're operating from the same reality.
SJWs are a natural consequence of corporatism.

Formerly GrumpyCatFace

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