Civil War Doomsday Clock

[Ph64]

Messing up the lives of the civilians is a demonstrated path to losing their support.

Talking from experience here.

If it's as bad as you can imagine, you win them over by being the ones that make things better.

If they see your efforts against the bad guy as efforts that make it worse for them, they'll turn on you.

Talking from experience here.

Fair enough, I bow to your experience.

Remember, you're talking about people.

If you blow up their roads, and blow up their markets, and blow up their homes, they won't care what it does to the people in charge. They will care what it does to them.

If you put men on the streets to secure their neighborhoods, if you provide and secure their schools, if you make sure their markets are stocked and secured, they will support you.

We learned this while fighting cartels who enjoyed public support because they did more than the government to bring a greater quality of life, and we learned this while fighting insurgents who lost support because they blew up markets, and roads, and schools.

The first priority of an insurgency is to maintain the support of the people, and it has to be voluntary. A war of terror against them to maintain their compliance won't work.

We have millions of veterans who have been through this who ought to have learned this.

The majority of the nation doesn't know that we have millions of citizens who saw it first hand and learned how you make it work. These politicians don't have a clue.

There are millions of veterans who learned from the past two decades of war just how you do and don't carry out an insurgency.

You don't make lives worse for the civilians.

It's the economy, stupid.

+100. What I was trying to say but put across far better.

Most people don't care about ideals, they just want a reasonably comfortable life. You disrupt that life at your own risk, if they see you as the blame for their discomfort they're likely to side with your opposition if they promise "return to normality" (even if worse than what they started with - if they perceive it as still better than what you are offering you've lost).

[Okeefenokee]

Folks might not realize, but the turn in Iraq came when the Sons of Iraq took to the streets to restore order.

We sent in a huge number of troops to fight the many different groups causing trouble, but all the locals saw was more fighters coming in to fight more fighters. As we went in, they responded. They were sending out kill teams to counter anyone working with us, and we went out to hunt down their kill teams.

Sunnis attacked Shias, Shias then attacked Sunnis. What it meant for the average person was a shit load of bombs going off when they were trying to buy groceries.

Eventually, the SOI sent out troops to guard the streets.

In a matter of weeks, the frequency of attacks in Baghdad dropped to less than one per week, when they had been dozens per day before.

There was an armed man on every corner, not blowing up markets, but securing them, and the populace had turned entirely in favor of the people ensuring safety.

We even had to deal with this by allowing potential threats into our positions because mixing with the locals meant if there was an attack, the locals would side with us and against the insurgents who launched the attack.

The locals cared more about their roads being functional, so every time we got hit, it helped us if it also meant their roads were damaged.

The insurgency wasn't blind to this, so after a while we were more safe when we had locals around.

The point being, don't piss off the locals.

[C-Mag]

We even had to deal with this by allowing potential threats into our positions because mixing with the locals meant if there was an attack, the locals would side with us and against the insurgents who launched the attack.

The locals cared more about their roads being functional, so every time we got hit, it helped us if it also meant their roads were damaged.

The insurgency wasn't blind to this, so after a while we were more safe when we had locals around.

The point being, don't piss off the locals.

A buddy of mine called me from Iraq a few weeks ago. He has troops spread all over Hells Half-Acre. So I asked him what the convoy security was like when he traveled around. He said, no more convoys. He has to go check on something at a different base and they fly. He said they hear rumors of attacks here or there, but never actually see an attack or even hear one in the distance.

Anyway, let me explain further the point I was making. It was the point about what do you do if you are trapped in occupied territory to support the downfall of the regime. I was making the point that if you could COVERTLY make the roads bad, it would result in a loss of confidence in the government.

It's making the Government suffer indirectly.
Of course, if you get caught, you ruin what you were trying to accomplish.

[Ph64]

Anyway, let me explain further the point I was making. It was the point about what do you do if you are trapped in occupied territory to support the downfall of the regime. I was making the point that if you could COVERTLY make the roads bad, it would result in a loss of confidence in the government.

It's making the Government suffer indirectly.
Of course, if you get caught, you ruin what you were trying to accomplish.

Agreed, but using gas to make potholes in enough quantity to result in a loss of confidence in govt seems like it'd be awfully tough not to be discovered? I mean people are used to potholes here and there, and generally they get cold-patched at least within a year (here in the NE usually in spring/summer after the winter creates them)... It's gonna take an abnormally large amount of them to really have any effect, and over a sustained number of years.... Which probably just makes them tax people more until they move.

Or you need a coordinated national effort. That doesn't get found/infiltrated by govt spooks. Good luck.

And I'd think you'd better be prepared for deaths... When that pothole rips apart someones perhaps already weakened front end, takes out their ball joint or steering and a soccer mom with 3 young kids careens off into a ditch where a few of them die, are you gonna be comfortable with that knowing you created that pothole?

If you're gonna do that I'd rather see you practice your sharpshooting and just take out some politicians.

[Speaker to Animals]

It would be easier to just elect democrats.

[The Conservative]

It would be easier to just elect democrats.

Bite your tongue and bleed out.

[Speaker to Animals]

Well, I mean, if our goal is to destablize the nation state and create a civil war, then elect the democrats. Pouring gas all over the roads in secret is tedious.

All the democrat strongholds are shit holes now, bankrupted, and falling apart. Try driving around in the southside of Chicago. They didn't need insurgents to fuck up the roads there. They just needed democrats.

[The Conservative]

Well, I mean, if our goal is to destablize the nation state and create a civil war, then elect the democrats. Pouring gas all over the roads in secret is tedious.

All the democrat strongholds are shit holes now, bankrupted, and falling apart. Try driving around in the southside of Chicago. They didn't need insurgents to fuck up the roads there. They just needed democrats.

They are like a virus, once they get their claws into something, it takes a near act of god to remove them without proper medication.

I’m not willing to risk a blue wave of Democrat Virus to be spread across this country just so it can look like Chicago.

By the time that happens, it may be too late to fix anything.

[Ph64]

It would be easier to just elect democrats.

Bite your tongue and bleed out.

Actually that kinda goes to show the whole destabilizing the state thing doesn't work. Detroit, Chicongo, ShitFrancisco, all these Dem controlled (for decades) cities - undrinkable water, high crime rates, drug addicts piling the streets with shit and needles... And the people are are still taking it.

You think a few more potholes is going to drive people to revolt when they seemingly are ok with telling their 5-y/o kid "don't touch those needles and shit piles" at least until they get shot in a gang drive-by or molested by a homeless pedophile?

[The Conservative]

It would be easier to just elect democrats.

Bite your tongue and bleed out.

Actually that kinda goes to show the whole destabilizing the state thing doesn't work. Detroit, Chicongo, ShitFrancisco, all these Dem controlled (for decades) cities - undrinkable water, high crime rates, drug addicts piling the streets with shit and needles... And the people are are still taking it.

You think a few more potholes is going to drive people to revolt when they seemingly are ok with telling their 5-y/o kid "don't touch those needles and shit piles" at least until they get shot in a gang drive-by or molested by a homeless pedophile?

Read what I posted just above this...