How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

[StCapps]

OK, I'm game. What is the ideology that is going to make state-managed "healthcare" "work?" And what are it's "flexible" points?

Not once in this thread have I ever claimed to know the answers. Do you know? Psst. I'm against state managed healthcare, personally. I thought you knew that?

Universal Federal Public Option, private insurers cover what they can make a profit off of covering, the federal public option covers the shit they can't make a profit off of. That way both sides can do their job better. It's not rocket surgery, fixing Health Care isn't that complicated, it's only complicated because of entrenched special interests won't let you actually fix it because it cuts into their market share.

[K@th]

My question was not one to emote guilt; it's to provoke thought.

Well that's naive, because even playing the "dying in the streets" card, is going to lead people to think you are trying to make others feel guilty. Of course the answer lies between the two extremes, but neither extreme is on the table so when you bring it up the way that you did, it makes people think that you think they are these extremists. It's not hard to see, how they made that mistake.

Orly?

Did you think I was being a cold hearted bastard when I (on dozens and dozens of occasions) kept asking people exactly how much money they were willing to spend to give a dying man another hour, minute, second... ? I encourage people to pull on my heart strings about that, because the place I come back to is, no, another hour on a feeding tube for an unconscious man with no hope of recovery at the cost of $100,000 is not something I'm willing to do. I got accused of "death panels," back then. It gets so tiring, honestly, that you can't keep track if I'm a lefty or righty over time.

Capps - seriously, answer this simple question. How can we, as a society, figure out how we are going to do it, if we aren't even willing to ask what we are willing to do?

[SuburbanFarmer]

I'm for single-payer, managed healthcare a'la UK/European/Canadian systems.

We can't all be lumped into a single group of Enemies for you to shoot at.

[adwinistrator]

Article 1, Section 8. Article 1 Section 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States.

Welfare: health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being.

[StCapps]

Capps - seriously, answer this simple question. How can we, as a society, figure out how we are going to do it, if we aren't even willing to ask what we are willing to do?

You are asking the wrong questions. The real question is, How do you get entrenched special interest groups to buy into health care reform that will actually work for everyone and not just line their pockets?

The solution is ready to go, you just need to sell the special interests on it, you are well passed the point where you need to bring up the extremes on either side as if anyone actually wants to push those ideas as "solutions". When you bring up the extremes the way that you did, you are probably going to create unnecessary confusion that you actually hold one of those extremist positions, or accusing others of holding one of those positions.

[jediuser598]

My question was not one to emote guilt; it's to provoke thought.

Well that's naive, because even playing the "dying in the streets" card, is going to lead people to think you are trying to make others feel guilty. Of course the answer lies between the two extremes, but neither extreme is on the table so when you bring it up the way that you did, it makes people think that you think they are these extremists. It's not hard to see, how they made that mistake.

Orly?

Did you think I was being a cold hearted bastard when I (on dozens and dozens of occasions) kept asking people exactly how much money they were willing to spend to give a dying man another hour, minute, second... ? I encourage people to pull on my heart strings about that, because the place I come back to is, no, another hour on a feeding tube for an unconscious man with no hope of recovery at the cost of $100,000 is not something I'm willing to do. I got accused of "death panels," back then. It gets so tiring, honestly, that you can't keep track if I'm a lefty or righty over time.

Capps - seriously, answer this simple question. How can we, as a society, figure out how we are going to do it, if we aren't even willing to ask what we are willing to do?

You are arguing it the wrong way, and I'll have this discussion with you. If your kid's life was on the line, how robust do you believe the safety​ net should be? What's the number, what's the math? This isn't an easy discussion, we're talking human lives.

[K@th]

you are well passed the point where you need to bring up the extremes on either side as if anyone actually wants to push those ideas as "solutions".

Wrong. Most of the peeps in this thread have no idea what they do and don't want. Okee - If people want to get healthy they should save up their money to pay for it. I bought my own house.

That's not an indication that he agrees that it needs to be somewhere in the middle. Not even close. I'm talking to THOSE people.

[StCapps]

You are arguing it the wrong way, and I'll have this discussion with you. If your kid's life was on the line, how robust do you believe the safety​ net should be? What's the number, what's the math? This isn't an easy discussion, we're talking human lives.

Stop appealing to emotion and an actual discussion can be had on how you want to structure your social safety net. Keep appealing to emotion and you are decreasing the chances that such a discussion will occur with you involved in it.

[jediuser598]

You are arguing it the wrong way, and I'll have this discussion with you. If your kid's life was on the line, how robust do you believe the safety​ net should be? What's the number, what's the math? This isn't an easy discussion, we're talking human lives.

Stop appealing to emotion and an actual discussion can be had on how you want to structure your social safety net. Keep appealing to emotion and you are decreasing the chances that such a discussion will occur with you involved in it.

Capps, I don't need your advice.

[StCapps]

That's not an indication that he agrees that it needs to be somewhere in the middle. Not even close. I'm talking to THOSE people.

So you only want to talk only to people you think are on or near the extreme end of the spectrum and don't want to discuss this with anyone who is closer to somewhere in the middle. That's fucking odd, especially when you claim to not know the answers, you are determined to discuss this with people who know even less than you do.