The Mess

[Smitty-48]

Underwater tac nukes? And that's not going to be noticed by the US forces within seconds?

Not noticed by the NCA with sufficient time to react to it, while an SSN on patrol would detect an underwater nuclear detonation at great distance, that does not mean that they are able to get that information up the chain of command in time for the CIP Key's and Gold Codes to be issued, the NCA is not going to be recieving the information in real time, nor are they going to be making split second decisions based on what they are being told, the Boomers are sunk, the DSP goes off line, the window is open for the counterforce, before the NCA has any grasp of what is going on, by the time they figure out what is going on and then begin to react to it, the war is already over.

[Okeefenokee]

Underwater tac nukes? And that's not going to be noticed by the US forces within seconds?

Ridiculous fantasy, and exactly the kind of thinking that could end the world.

As ridiculous as patrolling the world's oceans with land based aircraft?

An explosion going off somewhere in the middle of the ocean isn't going to trigger alarms and red flashy lights in the Pentagon.

[Montegriffo]

I heard a really good radio play about that once, wish I could remember it's name. Pretty much what you said happened and the crew were stuck in the middle of the Pacific with no radio contact just interference and they had to decide what to do.

Sounds like Hunt For Red October.
.

Nope not that. It was quite dark. They had launched their Nukes and assumed that the Soviets had done the same. Some crew decided all their families were dead and wanted to see if Australia had avoided the worst effects while the others wanted to go home and search for their loved ones.

[Smitty-48]

The first manouvre in the first strike option, is prepositioning dual use anti-sattelite capability in low earth orbit, looks like sattelites, behaves like sattelites, but actually covert weapons, when the snipers have all the Boomers in the kill zone, the ASAT's at that point make their runs to high orbit against the DSP constellation, tac nukes again, so they won't miss, when the DSP goes down, launch on warning will be out of action for a window of opportunity, and that is then H-Hour.

The DSP would detect an underwater nuclear detonation, but it can't do that, when the DSP itself just got nuked, in that blind spot, is where the Boomers get sunk, and the SLBM's fly on a depressed trajectory to the Great Plains, the TRIAD will not actually shoot from the hip, the NCA will not actually react inside ten minutes, and in that window of opportunity, the counterforce will prevail.

Bear in mind, the Russians at this point have not nuked any of your cities, all they've nuked is your nukes, your countervalue assets have been taken out by their counterforce, but because they have struck first, they still have all their land based countervalue assets hanging as a nuclear Sword of Damocles over your heads, at which point, they will pause, open the lines of communication, and demand your capitulation in the face of nuclear blackmail with your population centres as the hostages.

If you needed more encouragement, they would likley take out a couple of small cities, as a firepower demonstration, and in the face of that, the rest of the cities are going to sue for peace, with the Russians dictating terms therein.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Underwater tac nukes? And that's not going to be noticed by the US forces within seconds?

Ridiculous fantasy, and exactly the kind of thinking that could end the world.

As ridiculous as patrolling the world's oceans with land based aircraft?

An explosion going off somewhere in the middle of the ocean isn't going to trigger alarms and red flashy lights in the Pentagon.

Of course it would. We have satellites monitoring the entire globe in real-time for heat signatures. You already know this.

There is no need to 'patrol' anything. We have eyes in the skies.

[SuburbanFarmer]

The first manouvre in the first strike option, is prepositioning dual use anti-sattelite capability in low earth orbit, looks like sattelites, behaves like sattelites, but actually covert weapons, when the snipers have all the Boomers in the kill zone, the ASAT's at that point make their runs to high orbit against the DSP constellation, tac nukes again, so they won't miss, when the DSP goes down, launch on warning will be out of action for a window of opportunity, and that is then H-Hour.

The DSP would detect an underwater nuclear detonation, but it can't do that, when the DSP itself just got nuked, in that blind spot, is where the Boomers get sunk, and the SLBM's fly on a depressed trajectory to the Great Plains, the TRIAD will not actually shoot from the hip, the NCA will not actually react inside ten minutes, and in that window of opportunity, the counterforce will prevail.

Bear in mind, the Russians at this point have not nuked any of your cities, all they've nuked is your nukes, your countervalue assets have been taken out by their counterforce, but because they have struck first, they still have all their land based countervalue assets hanging as a nuclear Sword of Damocles over your heads, at which point, they will pause, open the lines of communication, and demand your capitulation in the face of nuclear blackmail with your population centres as the hostages.

If you needed more encouragement, they would likley take out a couple of small cities, as a firepower demonstration, and in the face of that, the rest of the cities are going to sue for peace, with the Russians dictating terms therein.

You do not understand how satellites work.

[Smitty-48]

We have eyes in the skies.

There's only five of them, only three of those are active at any given time, only one is covering the CONUS. Poke that eye out, and you are blind to a point blank countrforce for several hours thereafter.

[Smitty-48]

You do not understand how satellites work.

Actually, it's clearly you who do not, you surmise that there are many sattelites watching the CONUS, when that is not the case, and you surmise that the one sattalite watching the CONUS for a first strike, is somehow invulnerable to anti-sattelite weapons, which it is not, merely a question of a two stage ASAT, stage one to low orbit, second stage on command to the DSP eye in the sky. First response of the United States to the DSP going down, will not be launch on warning, but rather diagnostic check for fault, the window to the Great Plains opens therein, by the time confidence is high that the sattelite is down by counterforce, the counterforce has already been executed.

[SuburbanFarmer]

We have eyes in the skies.

There's only five of them, only three of those are active at any given time, only one is covering the CONUS. Poke that eye out, and you are blind to a point blank countrforce for several hours thereafter.

First, there is no known way to reliably target a single satellite in high orbit. You're talking about billions of cubic miles of space, and a target the size of a VW bug moving at around 4,000 mph.

Second, the military launches shit all the time without telling us, and have even done a 60 minutes special about how China or someone tried to take one out in low-earth orbit, and missed. We're testing systems to hit a low-orbital target, but it's barely functional. We're at least 20 years from anyone conceivably even attempting to take out our network.

Third, one does not change orbit by going 'up'. Even a single-degree difference in trajectory would mean hundreds of meters per second in closing/separation speed. Satellites simply cannot make massive orbital changes without sending up an entire rocket to move them. They don't have that kind of power. Probably a few miniscule adjustments to avoid space debris, and that's about it.

[SuburbanFarmer]

You do not understand how satellites work.

Actually, it's clearly you who do not, you surmise that there are many sattelites watching the CONUS, when that is not the case, and you surmise that the one sattalite watching the CONUS for a first strike, is somehow invulnerable to anti-sattelite weapons, which it is not, merely a question of a two stage ASAT, stage one to low orbit, second stage on command to the DSP eye in the sky. First response of the United States to the DSP going down, will not be launch on warning, but rather diagnostic check for fault, the window to the Great Plains opens therein, by the time confidence is high that the sattelite is down by counterforce, the counterforce has already been executed.

There's no reason to be concerned with watching CONUS - where did that come from?? The subject was "underwater tac nukes". Presumably, you weren't talking about firing them off in Lake Erie.