Protestant Revolt: Source for good & ill of Modernity

[Hastur]

Usery is taxation.

Stop acting like such a tard. Usury is a mathematical fraud. It's like a ponzi scheme where, instead of running out of people to pay everybody back, you run out of money. It's stealing.

The economy has nothing to do with scientific truths. It's a different Societal realm. You will get nowhere by conflating the two. Keep Science out of economics and keep economics out of science to as high a degree as possible.
https://www.martinhash.com/forums/viewt ... 3&p=207527

[GloryofGreece]

Usery is taxation.

Stop acting like such a tard. Usury is a mathematical fraud. It's like a ponzi scheme where, instead of running out of people to pay everybody back, you run out of money. It's stealing.

The economy has nothing to do with scientific truths. It's a different Societal realm. You will get nowhere by conflating the two. Keep Science out of economics and keep economics out of science to as high a degree as possible.
https://www.martinhash.com/forums/viewt ... 3&p=207527

Thanks for the compliment on an earlier post. Please put anything worthwhile and relevant to Protestantism in this thread as well! I have varied historical, philosophical, psychological, and religious interests. My breadth of interest makes it difficult for me to continue investigating any one specific topic or person etc. But I go back to dozen or so main ideas and this is one of them.

I looked at the thread with the table you provided. I think it has some utility and seems fairly reasonable. I do not buy into it overall though.I think for example, morality should guide a polity and ones profession to a large degree. As well as other differences that crossover.

[Speaker to Animals]

Usery is taxation.

Stop acting like such a tard. Usury is a mathematical fraud. It's like a ponzi scheme where, instead of running out of people to pay everybody back, you run out of money. It's stealing.

The economy has nothing to do with scientific truths. It's a different Societal realm. You will get nowhere by conflating the two. Keep Science out of economics and keep economics out of science to as high a degree as possible.
https://www.martinhash.com/forums/viewt ... 3&p=207527

This has nothing to do with science. It's mathematical. Our economy is filled with mathematical frauds. Pyramid schemes are a close analog to usury in which you mathematically cannot sustain the racket since there are never enough people. Usury is similar to that only, instead of running out of people, you run out of money.

Just the act of charging interest, in a real money economy, demands money that does not exist. Say we live on a tiny island nation with a hundred gold coins circulating in our entire economy. There are ten of us on this island, each starting with ten coins. One of us, the banker, decides to lend out nine of his coins to the other nine citizens with the expectation that they each repay him two coins (principal plus interest). How does that happen? It does not happen because it is a mathematical fraud. Some of the people he lent to will be able to repay, others will not. It is mathematically impossible for everybody to repay the loan with interest. It does not matter if we are on an island with ten people or in a country of three hundred million. It is always a mathematical fraud.

It gets even worse when you consider the effect on the money supply in an economy running on fiat money.

This is the reason our entire civilization considered usury a mortal sin until the Protestants set in motion our slow demise. Usury is stealing. It is a sin the same way defrauding people in a pyramid scheme is a sin. That we made theft not only legal, but the basis of our economy, is evidence of just how fucked of a wrong turn we took.

[Hastur]

Stop acting like such a tard. Usury is a mathematical fraud. It's like a ponzi scheme where, instead of running out of people to pay everybody back, you run out of money. It's stealing.

The economy has nothing to do with scientific truths. It's a different Societal realm. You will get nowhere by conflating the two. Keep Science out of economics and keep economics out of science to as high a degree as possible.
https://www.martinhash.com/forums/viewt ... 3&p=207527

This has nothing to do with science. It's mathematical. Our economy is filled with mathematical frauds. Pyramid schemes are a close analog to usury in which you mathematically cannot sustain the racket since there are never enough people. Usury is similar to that only, instead of running out of people, you run out of money.

Just the act of charging interest, in a real money economy, demands money that does not exist. Say we live on a tiny island nation with a hundred gold coins circulating in our entire economy. There are ten of us on this island, each starting with ten coins. One of us, the banker, decides to lend out nine of his coins to the other nine citizens with the expectation that they each repay him two coins (principal plus interest). How does that happen? It does not happen because it is a mathematical fraud. Some of the people he lent to will be able to repay, others will not. It is mathematically impossible for everybody to repay the loan with interest. It does not matter if we are on an island with ten people or I a country of three hundred million. It is always a mathematical fraud.

It gets even worse when you consider the effect on the money supply in an economy running on fiat money.

Except that isn't how any of it works. New money is created all the time and the economy is growing. Also, you have credit losses, settlements and write-offs. Economics is a weird field. You can't apply too much logic to it. There is a lot of faith involved. In the US everything is a racket of one type or another. Amazing that it works at all.

[Speaker to Animals]

The economy has nothing to do with scientific truths. It's a different Societal realm. You will get nowhere by conflating the two. Keep Science out of economics and keep economics out of science to as high a degree as possible.
https://www.martinhash.com/forums/viewt ... 3&p=207527

This has nothing to do with science. It's mathematical. Our economy is filled with mathematical frauds. Pyramid schemes are a close analog to usury in which you mathematically cannot sustain the racket since there are never enough people. Usury is similar to that only, instead of running out of people, you run out of money.

Just the act of charging interest, in a real money economy, demands money that does not exist. Say we live on a tiny island nation with a hundred gold coins circulating in our entire economy. There are ten of us on this island, each starting with ten coins. One of us, the banker, decides to lend out nine of his coins to the other nine citizens with the expectation that they each repay him two coins (principal plus interest). How does that happen? It does not happen because it is a mathematical fraud. Some of the people he lent to will be able to repay, others will not. It is mathematically impossible for everybody to repay the loan with interest. It does not matter if we are on an island with ten people or I a country of three hundred million. It is always a mathematical fraud.

It gets even worse when you consider the effect on the money supply in an economy running on fiat money.

Except that isn't how any of it works. New money is created all the time and the economy is growing. Also, you have credit losses, settlements and write-offs. Economics is a weird field. You can't apply too much logic to it. There is a lot of faith involved. In the US everything is a racket of one type or another. Amazing that it works at all.

This is exactly how it works.

"New money is created" precisely because we have a fiat money supply fueling an economy based on usury (theft). It is theft in two ways..

1) Usury itself is a mathematical fraud as I just explained, since the very act of charging interest entails demanding money that does not exist.

2) in a fiat monetary system usury results in credit cycles which is a source of monetary cycles. This happens because, in a fiat monetary system, credit acts no differently than printing more funny money. But printing more funny money in a fiat system is another form of stealing. It is the equivalent of coin debasement in a real monetary system.

If we went back to real money, and you figured out a way to slyly remove a little bit of precious metal from the coinage without people easily being able to tell, then you'd clearly be stealing from everybody. That is what happens when bankers charge interest in a fiat system. It is the gradual economic enslavement of the entire society by bankers.

Usury is fucking evil.

[Hastur]

This has nothing to do with science. It's mathematical. Our economy is filled with mathematical frauds. Pyramid schemes are a close analog to usury in which you mathematically cannot sustain the racket since there are never enough people. Usury is similar to that only, instead of running out of people, you run out of money.

Just the act of charging interest, in a real money economy, demands money that does not exist. Say we live on a tiny island nation with a hundred gold coins circulating in our entire economy. There are ten of us on this island, each starting with ten coins. One of us, the banker, decides to lend out nine of his coins to the other nine citizens with the expectation that they each repay him two coins (principal plus interest). How does that happen? It does not happen because it is a mathematical fraud. Some of the people he lent to will be able to repay, others will not. It is mathematically impossible for everybody to repay the loan with interest. It does not matter if we are on an island with ten people or I a country of three hundred million. It is always a mathematical fraud.

It gets even worse when you consider the effect on the money supply in an economy running on fiat money.

Except that isn't how any of it works. New money is created all the time and the economy is growing. Also, you have credit losses, settlements and write-offs. Economics is a weird field. You can't apply too much logic to it. There is a lot of faith involved. In the US everything is a racket of one type or another. Amazing that it works at all.

This is exactly how it works.

"New money is created" precisely because we have a fiat money supply fueling an economy based on usury (theft). It is theft in two ways..

1) Usury itself is a mathematical fraud as I just explained, since the very act of charging interest entails demanding money that does not exist.

2) in a fiat monetary system usury results in credit cycles which is a source of monetary cycles. This happens because, in a fiat monetary system, credit acts no differently than printing more funny money. But printing more funny money in a fiat system is another form of stealing. It is the equivalent of coin debasement in a real monetary system.

If we went back to real money, and you figured out a way to slyly remove a little bit of precious metal from the coinage without people easily being able to tell, then you'd clearly be stealing from everybody. That is what happens when bankers charge interest in a fiat system. It is the gradual economic enslavement of the entire society by bankers.

Usury is fucking evil.

There never was any time where they used "real money". There was always a state monopoly on minting and the crown would dilute the silver/gold content of the coins whenever it was deemed necessary.

[Speaker to Animals]

Except that isn't how any of it works. New money is created all the time and the economy is growing. Also, you have credit losses, settlements and write-offs. Economics is a weird field. You can't apply too much logic to it. There is a lot of faith involved. In the US everything is a racket of one type or another. Amazing that it works at all.

This is exactly how it works.

"New money is created" precisely because we have a fiat money supply fueling an economy based on usury (theft). It is theft in two ways..

1) Usury itself is a mathematical fraud as I just explained, since the very act of charging interest entails demanding money that does not exist.

2) in a fiat monetary system usury results in credit cycles which is a source of monetary cycles. This happens because, in a fiat monetary system, credit acts no differently than printing more funny money. But printing more funny money in a fiat system is another form of stealing. It is the equivalent of coin debasement in a real monetary system.

If we went back to real money, and you figured out a way to slyly remove a little bit of precious metal from the coinage without people easily being able to tell, then you'd clearly be stealing from everybody. That is what happens when bankers charge interest in a fiat system. It is the gradual economic enslavement of the entire society by bankers.

Usury is fucking evil.

There never was any time where they used "real money". There was always a state monopoly on minting and the crown would dilute the silver/gold content of the coins whenever it was deemed necessary.

Silver/gold coins are literally real money.

[Hastur]

This is exactly how it works.

"New money is created" precisely because we have a fiat money supply fueling an economy based on usury (theft). It is theft in two ways..

1) Usury itself is a mathematical fraud as I just explained, since the very act of charging interest entails demanding money that does not exist.

2) in a fiat monetary system usury results in credit cycles which is a source of monetary cycles. This happens because, in a fiat monetary system, credit acts no differently than printing more funny money. But printing more funny money in a fiat system is another form of stealing. It is the equivalent of coin debasement in a real monetary system.

If we went back to real money, and you figured out a way to slyly remove a little bit of precious metal from the coinage without people easily being able to tell, then you'd clearly be stealing from everybody. That is what happens when bankers charge interest in a fiat system. It is the gradual economic enslavement of the entire society by bankers.

Usury is fucking evil.

There never was any time where they used "real money". There was always a state monopoly on minting and the crown would dilute the silver/gold content of the coins whenever it was deemed necessary.

Silver/gold coins are literally real money.

During the 100 years war, the french diluted their coinage down to 20% silver and made it punishable by death to refuse to accept the new coins.

[Speaker to Animals]

There never was any time where they used "real money". There was always a state monopoly on minting and the crown would dilute the silver/gold content of the coins whenever it was deemed necessary.

Silver/gold coins are literally real money.

During the 100 years war, the french diluted their coinage down to 20% silver and made it punishable by death to refuse to accept the new coins.

Because it was stealing. So is printing more money and handing it out interest-free to banks to then flood credit markets, driving up prices for essential goods like housing/rent, and slowly enslaving a nation of people in debt. Usury in a fiat monetary system is another way to "print" money.

Printing funny money is exactly like coin debasement.

And, yeah, we should be hanging bankers. What they have done is truly evil.

[heydaralon]

Behold:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_ ... evancerank

Make sure you use the dancarlin search engine for amazon when you buy those books so that he gets a piece of the profits. I shouldn't have to keep reminding you of this...

Your relentless. Did you ever get in a post exchange on his forum?

Not really. I made a thread about Dan being controlled by Amazon and he responded to it, but thats about it.