"If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

[Speaker to Animals]

LOL, I forgot. Google up "what is the price gold should be"? Then get back to me. Fuck sake you're as dense as he is.

You didn't ask for whom. The price of gold should be 50% less for me than it is for everybody else.

[TheReal_ND]

That's the price it's publicly traded at. Now if you want physical gold expect to pay more. But I can tell you the price of shares in a good any day of the week. Go ahead ask me.

[jbird4049]

LOL, I forgot. Google up "what is the price gold should be"? Then get back to me. Fuck sake you're as dense as he is.

As I have not said what the costs of food, clothing, housing, or anything else should be, but rather made comparisions of what was, and what was expected to continue to happen as it had for the 20+ years. Which was an increase, or the maintaining of employment and the increase in wages, productivity, and profits.

Instead we got a decrease in employment, and wages, and an increase in productivity and profits for most companies.

Free markets, or any functional economy of any kind, depends on some form of exchange. Well, wages were flat for thirty years, and have been declining for fifteen. Well, except for the top 10% Please explain just how businesses sell anything if their would be customers don't have money. And for American businesses (especially for finance) it's been ever more profitable.

Trouble is, it's gone from wealth creation to wealth parasitism.

[JohnDonne]

What about minimum wage on a sliding scale determined by company profits to encourage more small businesses and local economies? Let's say Walmart has to pay their employees $16 an hour and mom and pop has to pay their employees $10 an hour. What catastrophes would result?

[TheReal_ND]

Well considering that Walmart pays less than ten and they employ millions(?) more than mom and pop you just melted the economy. Good job

[GloryofGreece]

The important point here is that a rise in minimum wage is going to first affect the number of workers. When you increase the price for something, demand falls.

The labor market is not exempt from supply and demand.

Focusing on the impact on prices is a red herring. A rise in minimum wage could have some affect on prices, but more likely, it will only reduce economic activity. There will be less of the same goods and services being sold, but prices could easily remain the same. The primary impact is on price fixing in the labor market, not all these other markets that are only indirectly affected.

To see the impact of these laws, you need to look at the change in employment after the law went into effect. Most likely, you will see some increase in unemployment, welfare applications, etc. I have my doubts that it will affect a whole lot outside of a few industries, honestly, but it will definitely affect the poor in a negative way.

If the left wants to actually do something about stagnant wages and subsistence living, they could -- I don't know -- stop advocating for the mass flooding and glutting of the labor market through unfettered immigration??

Do you think its plausible that with rapid automation in the next few decades America will be left with the choice between some form of Fascism vs. International Communism?

[jbird4049]

What about minimum wage on a sliding scale determined by company profits to encourage more small businesses and local economies? Let's say Walmart has to pay their employees $16 an hour and mom and pop has to pay their employees $10 an hour. What catastrophes would result?

Walmart use to have a habit of parachuting a mega store in an isolated, or remote, area that already had plenty of small stores in small downtowns. They would unsell not only the local businesses but also below costs, or at least their regular price. So all the local businesses go bust, all the owners and their workers now work for lower wages, and because Walmart can be outside the town(s) they are not taxed by the local government(s). Walmart also does not always insure enough roads to get to them or pay for the increase wearing.

So functional businesses and relatively well paid employees and a proper taxbase to roads police schools eye to...not. If business is not profitable enough or anyone tries to unionize, stores have just been yanked out. Which just completes the dystopia.

Oh, Walmart employees have often been on welfare while working at Walmart.

[JohnDonne]

Well considering that Walmart pays less than ten and they employ millions(?) more than mom and pop you just melted the economy. Good job

Does the economy melt because Walmart fires everyone or because Walmart shuts down? If Walmart shut down I would say wait for the small businesses to come in and fill the vacuum.

If Walmart fires everyone and they automate everything I'd argue they were about to do that anyway and we should be focusing on a minimum income, not a minimum wage.

[jbird4049]

The important point here is that a rise in minimum wage is going to first affect the number of workers. When you increase the price for something, demand falls.

The labor market is not exempt from supply and demand.

Focusing on the impact on prices is a red herring. A rise in minimum wage could have some affect on prices, but more likely, it will only reduce economic activity. There will be less of the same goods and services being sold, but prices could easily remain the same. The primary impact is on price fixing in the labor market, not all these other markets that are only indirectly affected.

To see the impact of these laws, you need to look at the change in employment after the law went into effect. Most likely, you will see some increase in unemployment, welfare applications, etc. I have my doubts that it will affect a whole lot outside of a few industries, honestly, but it will definitely affect the poor in a negative way.

If the left wants to actually do something about stagnant wages and subsistence living, they could -- I don't know -- stop advocating for the mass flooding and glutting of the labor market through unfettered immigration??

Do you think its plausible that with rapid automation in the next few decades America will be left with the choice between some form of Fascism vs. International Communism?

Government policies have the power to increase or decrease the spread of wealth.

Unions use to be strong. The minimum wage higher. College cheap. Higher income taxes on the wealthy and on large estates reduced the concentration of wealth. And yes large numbers of undocumented workers while good for businesses is bad for other low wage earners.

Every major policy change seems to always make the bottom half poorer, shrink the middle class, and stuff unGodly amounts of money into a very few pockets.

Somehow it's always the poor, the working class, blacks, college students, you know, the 80% of Americans either fearing poverty or already there that are responsible for their misery, but not the 1% who actually run the economy and government for themselves. Funny that.


Does anyone think it is the other way around?

[jbird4049]

Well considering that Walmart pays less than ten and they employ millions(?) more than mom and pop you just melted the economy. Good job

Does the economy melt because Walmart fires everyone or because Walmart shuts down? If Walmart shut down I would say wait for the small businesses to come in and fill the vacuum.

If Walmart fires everyone and they automate everything I'd argue they were about to do that anyway and we should be focusing on a minimum income, not a minimum wage.

Even if I was convinced that automation is an oncoming doom, this Walmartization of our economy has been building for over forty years. Also I doubt even more that the CEO should make 500 times more than the clerk. That's not hyperbole BTW although 300 times is more common.