Trump is a tool of the __ / nope, just a tool

[Smitty-48]

I'm on the side of the Haves, they're quiet, they keep their yards well tended, they don't bother me.

I am a have-ish. We work hard, and are on the upper end of the proles. We stay quiet-ish... but we have voices. What we do know, being on this cusp, is that the have-nots are growing while the haves are shrinking. Some of our former haves friends are now non-have friends. The list grows longer every year. And we work through it and scale back our outings. We're flexible like that. But... this is the reason we are not the actual haves, but merely a have-ish.

We have a Marie Antoinette situation starting to happen. It's at the early stages, no chicken little, yet, but we do have to nip it in the bud before it becomes more serious. The Gilded Age was not sustainable then, and it's not sustainable now.

Have fun storming the castle, I'll be here putting weed n' feed on my lawn, I'm all about my lawn these days, it's become an obsession, the guy two doors down, his lawn is perfect, it's unfuckingbelievable, I mean, it's so perfect, it looks fake... he's my hero, I'm trying to get him to be my lawn mentor.

[C-Mag]

Were you a fan of Nixon's actions in the Vietnam War?

Yeah, I think he did what he had to do, with the giant sized mess that he inhereted from the Democrats, in the context of realpolitik.

Did the strategic Cambodia Laos Madman strategy actually work in your opinion?

To put Nixon's management of Vietnam in to context, you need to understand the background of US involvement. In 1961 John Fitzgerald Kennedy reset US priorities in the containment of Communism in Asia to Vietnam as the top priority. That put on the road to conflict with Ho Chi Minh. In 1962 Kennedy signed off on Operation Ranch hand (Agent Orange Spraying), it wouldn't end until 1971.

JFK died on Friday November 22, by Monday November 24 Lyndon Baines Johnson pledged to take on the fight against Communism with 'Strength and Vigor', I paraphrase. LBJ ramped up the fight from there on, when LBJ left office there was a US peak troop strength of 530,000 troops, and a total of 30,000 KIA.

Nixon began reducing Troop strength in his first year, and rather systematically. 25% the first year, followed by 50%, then 75%, Nixon had us out in 1973. Nixon started negotiating with North and South Vietnam in the first year of his presidency.

Nixon tried some different stuff, not much of it original, but to me, Nixon was set on ending the war, pretty much from the start.

[Ex-California]

Dan's take on Nixon on that American Presidents podcast changed my whole outlook on the guy

[heydaralon]

I read Will by G Gordon Liddy, and that guy fucking loved Nixon. He was willing to fall on his sword pretty hard for the guy, even though it doesn't seem like him and Nixon were close. In his autobiography he makes the break-ins seem essential to the survival of the republic, but it doesn't make much since to me because Nixon won the election pretty decisively. For such an intelligent strategic man, this seems like an insane lack of judgment.

[Smitty-48]

To put Nixon's management of Vietnam in to context, you need to understand the background of US involvement. In 1961 John Fitzgerald Kennedy reset US priorities in the containment of Communism in Asia to Vietnam as the top priority. That put on the road to conflict with Ho Chi Minh.

That's not the origin of US involvement, US involvement begins with the bankrolling and arming of the French Indochina War against Vietnamese Self Determination, to the tune of 80%, then, when the Viet Minh win the war, the US convinces the Soviets and Chinese to force the Viet Minh to accept a partition of the country, removing all victorious Viet Minh forces from the South, on the promise that elections would be held in two years to elect a unity government.

Then, when it is clear that the Viet Minh will win the elections over the French colonial puppet government set up in the South, the US backs that government in reneging on the promise of elections, at which point, the Viet Minh nationalists form a coalition in the South to retake what they had already won, called the National Liberation Front, in order to reunify the country which the United States had divided under false pretenses, and at that point, the US sides with the Mandarin despot Ngo Dinh Diem against this popular uprising which quickly escalates into an insurgency.

By 1961, the US had been deeply involved for almost two decades. The American conflict with Ho Chi Minh begins in 1945.

[heydaralon]

To put Nixon's management of Vietnam in to context, you need to understand the background of US involvement. In 1961 John Fitzgerald Kennedy reset US priorities in the containment of Communism in Asia to Vietnam as the top priority. That put on the road to conflict with Ho Chi Minh.

That's not the origin of US involvement, US involvement begins with the bankrolling and arming of the French Indochina War against Vietnamese Self Determination, to the tune of 80%, then, when the Viet Minh win the war, the US convinces the Soviets and Chinese to force the Viet Minh to accept a partition of the country, removing all victorious Viet Minh forces from the South, on the promise that elections would be held in two years to elect a unity government.

Then, when it is clear that the Viet Minh will win the elections over the French colonial puppet government set up in the South, the US backs that government in reneging on the promise of elections, at which point, the Viet Minh nationalists form a coalition in the South to retake what they had already won, called the National Liberation Front, in order to reunify the country which the United States had divided under false pretenses, and at that point, the US sides with the Mandarin despot Ngo Dinh Diem against this popular uprising which quickly escalates into an insurgency.

By 1961, the US had been deeply involved for almost two decades. The American conflict with Ho Chi Minh begins in 1945.

During WW2 I believe Ho Chi Minh got some American aid for fighting against the Japanese, though I could be misremembering this.

[Smitty-48]

To put Nixon's management of Vietnam in to context, you need to understand the background of US involvement. In 1961 John Fitzgerald Kennedy reset US priorities in the containment of Communism in Asia to Vietnam as the top priority. That put on the road to conflict with Ho Chi Minh.

That's not the origin of US involvement, US involvement begins with the bankrolling and arming of the French Indochina War against Vietnamese Self Determination, to the tune of 80%, then, when the Viet Minh win the war, the US convinces the Soviets and Chinese to force the Viet Minh to accept a partition of the country, removing all victorious Viet Minh forces from the South, on the promise that elections would be held in two years to elect a unity government.

Then, when it is clear that the Viet Minh will win the elections over the French colonial puppet government set up in the South, the US backs that government in reneging on the promise of elections, at which point, the Viet Minh nationalists form a coalition in the South to retake what they had already won, called the National Liberation Front, in order to reunify the country which the United States had divided under false pretenses, and at that point, the US sides with the Mandarin despot Ngo Dinh Diem against this popular uprising which quickly escalates into an insurgency.

By 1961, the US had been deeply involved for almost two decades. The American conflict with Ho Chi Minh begins in 1945.

During WW2 I believe Ho Chi Minh got some American aid for fighting against the Japanese, though I could be misremembering this.

Indeed, the Vietnamese nationalists were America's stalwart allies against the Japanese, before they were betrayed in the interests of appeasing the French Colonial Empire.

The relationship goes all the way back the Paris Peace Conference 1919, when Woodrow Wilson invoked Self Determination, and the Vietnamese nationalists naively took it to heart.

[Hastur]

But, but, ... The Russians!!!!! We just need to connect the dots!



Stay Woke!

[jbird4049]

I'm on the side of the Haves, they're quiet, they keep their yards well tended, they don't bother me.

I am a have-ish. We work hard, and are on the upper end of the proles. We stay quiet-ish... but we have voices. What we do know, being on this cusp, is that the have-nots are growing while the haves are shrinking. Some of our former haves friends are now non-have friends. The list grows longer every year. And we work through it and scale back our outings. We're flexible like that. But... this is the reason we are not the actual haves, but merely a have-ish.

We have a Marie Antoinette situation starting to happen. It's at the early stages, no chicken little, yet, but we do have to nip it in the bud before it becomes more serious. The Gilded Age was not sustainable then, and it's not sustainable now.

Have fun storming the castle, I'll be here putting weed n' feed on my lawn, I'm all about my lawn these days, it's become an obsession, the guy two doors down, his lawn is perfect, it's unfuckingbelievable, I mean, it's so perfect, it looks fake... he's my hero, I'm trying to get him to be my lawn mentor.

Okay Nero, just keep that lawn looking fabulous.

The problem we have here is that the unwashed have-nots keep increasing while the haves keep decreasing and both are separated by an increasingly terrified group of the havish realizing they've fucked.

It doesn't matter what we want; we are not going to outmaneuver that storm, which could be just a tropical depression or a category 5 hurricane. Who knows?

[C-Mag]

To put Nixon's management of Vietnam in to context, you need to understand the background of US involvement. In 1961 John Fitzgerald Kennedy reset US priorities in the containment of Communism in Asia to Vietnam as the top priority. That put on the road to conflict with Ho Chi Minh.

That's not the origin of US involvement, US involvement begins with the bankrolling and arming of the French Indochina War against Vietnamese Self Determination, to the tune of 80%, then, when the Viet Minh win the war, the US convinces the Soviets and Chinese to force the Viet Minh to accept a partition of the country, removing all victorious Viet Minh forces from the South, on the promise that elections would be held in two years to elect a unity government.

Then, when it is clear that the Viet Minh will win the elections over the French colonial puppet government set up in the South, the US backs that government in reneging on the promise of elections, at which point, the Viet Minh nationalists form a coalition in the South to retake what they had already won, called the National Liberation Front, in order to reunify the country which the United States had divided under false pretenses, and at that point, the US sides with the Mandarin despot Ngo Dinh Diem against this popular uprising which quickly escalates into an insurgency.

By 1961, the US had been deeply involved for almost two decades. The American conflict with Ho Chi Minh begins in 1945.

Fair enough, it is part of the puzzle. To go back a little further, FDR had started laying out a post war policy for the US. It specifically said the US would not get into supporting client states. Truman changed that with Korea.