Humans must merge with machines or become irrelevant in AI age

[jbird4049]

I think Marshall McLuhan had it right. We have already mostly left the biological world and entered into the Machine World.

Man becomes, as it were, the sex organs of the machine world, as the bee of the plant world, enabling it to fecundate and to evolve ever new forms. The machine world reciprocates man's love by expediting his wishes and desires, namely, in providing him with wealth.

There is an interdependability. The machines will, when they become conscious of themselves and the world around them, recognise the utility of mankind. We will, as a species, be kept and pampered to ensure continued evolution of the machines. One day we might cease to be useful. The best thing for us might be to try and develop artificial nostalgia.

Man, heavy and creepy this is.

Just suppose I don't want to be a reproductive organ for an AI Overlord?

[Okeefenokee]

I think Marshall McLuhan had it right. We have already mostly left the biological world and entered into the Machine World.

Man becomes, as it were, the sex organs of the machine world, as the bee of the plant world, enabling it to fecundate and to evolve ever new forms. The machine world reciprocates man's love by expediting his wishes and desires, namely, in providing him with wealth.

There is an interdependability. The machines will, when they become conscious of themselves and the world around them, recognise the utility of mankind. We will, as a species, be kept and pampered to ensure continued evolution of the machines. One day we might cease to be useful. The best thing for us might be to try and develop artificial nostalgia.

/hits blunt

[jbird4049]

AI is not the problem.

Is the machine the problem?

In mankind's darkest hour, is the MKUltra-addled mind of a genius terrorist our last best hope?

#FreeTed

Humans are the problem. AI is a good in of itself that can be misused.

Transhumanism is intrinsically evil. That's completely separate from AI.

I partially agree with you on the possibility of evil. Drawing a line though might be a problem. At what point are people "transhumance" or to be bit old fashioned, a cyborg? When done it become evil?

I've needed hearing aids my entire life. Nowadays they are programmable and higher end models can use Bluetooth. For those, one could connect to the right microphone in another building. For all I know, they will add radio soon.

Others have artificial lens in their eyes, programable artificial limbs, insulin pumps, implanted artificial ears. For people with locked in syndrome they are making devices for them to communicate and control machines.

What about people with genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis, or sickle cell? Diseases for which cures at the genetic level, not only for the affected organs, but probably for the germ plasm too, are being developed, and in a very few test cases used?

[GloryofGreece]

Is the machine the problem?

In mankind's darkest hour, is the MKUltra-addled mind of a genius terrorist our last best hope?

#FreeTed

Humans are the problem. AI is a good in of itself that can be misused.

Transhumanism is intrinsically evil. That's completely separate from AI.

I partially agree with you on the possibility of evil. Drawing a line though might be a problem. At what point are people "transhumance" or to be bit old fashioned, a cyborg? When done it become evil?

I've needed hearing aids my entire life. Nowadays they are programmable and higher end models can use Bluetooth. For those, one could connect to the right microphone in another building. For all I know, they will add radio soon.

Others have artificial lens in their eyes, programable artificial limbs, insulin pumps, implanted artificial ears. For people with locked in syndrome they are making devices for them to communicate and control machines.

What about people with genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis, or sickle cell? Diseases for which cures at the genetic level, not only for the affected organs, but probably for the germ plasm too, are being developed, and in a very few test cases used?

For me you are a cyborg when your brain is "enhanced" or altered by machinery. That's the line. Not your limbs or your eye sight per say but your actual thinking or cognitive ability etc. Everyone is going to have different proverbial lines that they are not going to cross and in the near future this will be more and more of a debate. I think we'll see the Christians in most of the world and even America move to have even more "primitive" onclaves where they have their own neighborhoods and schools etc. Where technology is limited how they see fit. And as long as people have real choice then I'm fine with it. But for a lot of issues and uses of tech the government is going to lord over the people or at least try and that might just cause another Constitutional crisis or even civil war. Who knows but conflict is coming over this general theme.

[jbird4049]

For me you are a cyborg when your brain is "enhanced" or altered by machinery. That's the line. Not your limbs or your eye sight per say but your actual thinking or cognitive ability etc. Everyone is going to have different proverbial lines that they are not going to cross and in the near future this will be more and more of a debate. I think we'll see the Christians in most of the world and even America move to have even more "primitive" onclaves where they have their own neighborhoods and schools etc. Where technology is limited how they see fit. And as long as people have real choice then I'm fine with it. But for a lot of issues and uses of tech the government is going to lord over the people or at least try and that might just cause another Constitutional crisis or even civil war. Who knows but conflict is coming over this general theme.

Just another reason to do something about income/wealth inequality. An ever shrinking group acquiring evermore power over everyone else, which makes them the determiners of what we all do, in this time of change.

[Speaker to Animals]

Is the machine the problem?

In mankind's darkest hour, is the MKUltra-addled mind of a genius terrorist our last best hope?

#FreeTed

Humans are the problem. AI is a good in of itself that can be misused.

Transhumanism is intrinsically evil. That's completely separate from AI.

I partially agree with you on the possibility of evil. Drawing a line though might be a problem. At what point are people "transhumance" or to be bit old fashioned, a cyborg? When done it become evil?

I've needed hearing aids my entire life. Nowadays they are programmable and higher end models can use Bluetooth. For those, one could connect to the right microphone in another building. For all I know, they will add radio soon.

Others have artificial lens in their eyes, programable artificial limbs, insulin pumps, implanted artificial ears. For people with locked in syndrome they are making devices for them to communicate and control machines.

What about people with genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis, or sickle cell? Diseases for which cures at the genetic level, not only for the affected organs, but probably for the germ plasm too, are being developed, and in a very few test cases used?

That's what we already discussed. It's the same kind of sophistic argument that gets played for every other form of human degeneracy.

First of all, look at the intentions of an act. Transhumanists are not people who really give a shit about extending the lifespan of somebody with a bad heart, or giving vision to the blind. They are people who, by definition, want to erase their humanity. This other stuff, at best, is ostensible rationalization, but more accurately: bullshit.

It's also a false dilemma fallacy. It presupposes that the future choices humans face must necessarily be limited to either death or some kind of cybernetics.

Wrong.

I could think of all sorts of technologies that could accomplish the same thing without losing your humanity. We could discover a means to regrow limbs, grow new organs, or invent some kind of longevity vaccine.

Another poster made the hilarious assertion that in the future, Christians will be exiled to primitive luddite communities. That's hilariously wrong. More likely, humanity will diverge, with humans preferring technologies that preserve their humanity, and sophists/leftist (what remains of them after the great die-off anyway) heading out into the black to become whatever space lampreys or robot swarms as they wish to be.

[jbird4049]

Humans are the problem. AI is a good in of itself that can be misused.

Transhumanism is intrinsically evil. That's completely separate from AI.

I partially agree with you on the possibility of evil. Drawing a line though might be a problem. At what point are people "transhumance" or to be bit old fashioned, a cyborg? When done it become evil?

I've needed hearing aids my entire life. Nowadays they are programmable and higher end models can use Bluetooth. For those, one could connect to the right microphone in another building. For all I know, they will add radio soon.

Others have artificial lens in their eyes, programable artificial limbs, insulin pumps, implanted artificial ears. For people with locked in syndrome they are making devices for them to communicate and control machines.

What about people with genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis, or sickle cell? Diseases for which cures at the genetic level, not only for the affected organs, but probably for the germ plasm too, are being developed, and in a very few test cases used?

That's what we already discussed. It's the same kind of sophistic argument that gets played for every other form of human degeneracy.

First of all, look at the intentions of an act. Transhumanists are not people who really give a shit about extending the lifespan of somebody with a bad heart, or giving vision to the blind. They are people who, by definition, want to erase their humanity. This other stuff, at best, is ostensible rationalization, but more accurately: bullshit.

It's also a false dilemma fallacy. It presupposes that the future choices humans face must necessarily be limited to either death or some kind of cybernetics.

Wrong.

I could think of all sorts of technologies that could accomplish the same thing without losing your humanity. We could discover a means to regrow limbs, grow new organs, or invent some kind of longevity vaccine.

Another poster made the hilarious assertion that in the future, Christians will be exiled to primitive luddite communities. That's hilariously wrong. More likely, humanity will diverge, with humans preferring technologies that preserve their humanity, and sophists/leftist (what remains of them after the great die-off anyway) heading out into the black to become whatever space lampreys or robot swarms as they wish to be.

I don't think it's a left/right or liberal/conservative division, but a concern/fear and thoughtful/panic one. Irons believes that our new AI Overlords might crush us mere humans as one would cockroaches, change and join them. If one thinks, AI will be a partnership, maybe some transhumanism. Or maybe, let's wait and see what happens before we start mutating ourselves.

Kinda like the Amish/Menonite/Catholic/Universalism approaches to the modern world and to technology.

Does that make sense?

What I think more likely to happen is that the elites will use genetics to create a Gattaca like dystopia.

[TheReal_ND]

Kinda like the Amish/Menonite/Catholic/Universalism approaches to the modern world and to technology.

Does that make sense?

Lol no

[Speaker to Animals]

I partially agree with you on the possibility of evil. Drawing a line though might be a problem. At what point are people "transhumance" or to be bit old fashioned, a cyborg? When done it become evil?

I've needed hearing aids my entire life. Nowadays they are programmable and higher end models can use Bluetooth. For those, one could connect to the right microphone in another building. For all I know, they will add radio soon.

Others have artificial lens in their eyes, programable artificial limbs, insulin pumps, implanted artificial ears. For people with locked in syndrome they are making devices for them to communicate and control machines.

What about people with genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis, or sickle cell? Diseases for which cures at the genetic level, not only for the affected organs, but probably for the germ plasm too, are being developed, and in a very few test cases used?

That's what we already discussed. It's the same kind of sophistic argument that gets played for every other form of human degeneracy.

First of all, look at the intentions of an act. Transhumanists are not people who really give a shit about extending the lifespan of somebody with a bad heart, or giving vision to the blind. They are people who, by definition, want to erase their humanity. This other stuff, at best, is ostensible rationalization, but more accurately: bullshit.

It's also a false dilemma fallacy. It presupposes that the future choices humans face must necessarily be limited to either death or some kind of cybernetics.

Wrong.

I could think of all sorts of technologies that could accomplish the same thing without losing your humanity. We could discover a means to regrow limbs, grow new organs, or invent some kind of longevity vaccine.

Another poster made the hilarious assertion that in the future, Christians will be exiled to primitive luddite communities. That's hilariously wrong. More likely, humanity will diverge, with humans preferring technologies that preserve their humanity, and sophists/leftist (what remains of them after the great die-off anyway) heading out into the black to become whatever space lampreys or robot swarms as they wish to be.

I don't think it's a left/right or liberal/conservative division, but a concern/fear and thoughtful/panic one. Irons believes that our new AI Overlords might crush us mere humans as one would cockroaches, change and join them. If one thinks, AI will be a partnership, maybe some transhumanism. Or maybe, let's wait and see what happens before we start mutating ourselves.

Kinda like the Amish/Menonite/Catholic/Universalism approaches to the modern world and to technology.

Does that make sense?

What I think more likely to happen is that the elites will use genetics to create a Gattaca like dystopia.

LOL, it doesn't make sense at all.


In my opinion, there will exist two generalized, but competing approaches to technology. One will be whatever becomes of transhumanism. The other is based on using technology without undermining our humanity.

The latter might prefer wearable technology to actually using implants. They might prefer longevity vaccines to cybernetic longevity. It's more like the difference between biotech and cybernetics.

What you have done is created a false dichotomy, and presented a future in which our only choices will be death or become transhuman, which is totally false.

[Okeefenokee]

There's a game with a lore that is very much like this thread. Humanity splits into two groups.

One is heavily modified and engineered humans. They're the transhumans. All kinds of mechanical and biological upgrades.

The other group just meditates and does martial arts, but the gains they achieve through that method surpass what the cyborg people achieve.

AD 2140

The human race is still limited largely to the planet Earth. Sparsely-manned scientific colonies exist on Mars and Luna. After sporadic conflicts and bloodshed in the previous hundred years, Earth now exists mostly in a state of peace. Considerable scientific achievements have been made, especially in the areas of cybernetic implantation and genetic manipulation. Children are born free of birth defects, accident victims often have body parts replaced with newly "grown" parts, derived from their own DNA. People with nerve and brain damage commonly undergo cybernetic augmentation to restore their senses, cure paralysis, and solve many common debilitating brain disorders. A jubilant scientific community celebrates the many contributions their technology has made, allowing humanity to live happier, healthier, longer lives.

At about the same time, various military organizations are secretly researching the possibilities that these technologies may offer them. Among other things, great strides are made in human dermal reinforcement, muscle enhancement, reaction speed and perception enhancement. Test subjects are able to endure harsh environments for long periods of time and perform superhuman feats of strength and speed. Some governments begin testing and producing cloned "drone soldiers", human bodies with no brain, controlled by a small computer implanted in the skull. These soldiers have limited effectiveness when run autonomously, instead being wirelessly linked and controlled via a central computer. Other, more ghastly creations are engineered, strange creatures intended for a multitude of uses, both on and off the battlefield.
https://www.vendetta-online.com/h/storyline.html