Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[BjornP]

You read Russian, right, ssu? Do you have any insights into what the public mood surrounding the Kurds are in Russian public opinion? I'm wondering, in the (hypothetical) case of Turkey aligning itself with Russia instead of NATO, if Russia would allow Turkey more leeway to handle their Kurdish problems more like the Assad regime handles its opposition.

We know that Russian media isn't free, but they're not North Korea or even China, either. So I'm thinking if Russian public opinion is firmly as Kurd-friendly as Western media generally has been, and that Russian public opinion probably might not be very Turk-friendly, will Turkey have more or less freedom to handle the Kurdish seperatism the way they want with the silovik regime or by remaining in NATO? O

[ssu]

You read Russian, right, ssu?

Nope, I don't. Very few Finns do speak/read Russian.

Have to do some work, I'll respond a bit later.

[ssu]

You read Russian, right, ssu? Do you have any insights into what the public mood surrounding the Kurds are in Russian public opinion? I'm wondering, in the (hypothetical) case of Turkey aligning itself with Russia instead of NATO, if Russia would allow Turkey more leeway to handle their Kurdish problems more like the Assad regime handles its opposition.

We know that Russian media isn't free, but they're not North Korea or even China, either. So I'm thinking if Russian public opinion is firmly as Kurd-friendly as Western media generally has been, and that Russian public opinion probably might not be very Turk-friendly, will Turkey have more or less freedom to handle the Kurdish seperatism the way they want with the silovik regime or by remaining in NATO? O

Russia changes it's stance to what looks to be best for it. Notice that from the anry response against Turkey when the Russian fighter-bomber was shot down, the relationship has totally changed after the coup attempt and now Russia has far more cozier with Turkey. They have had joint air sorties in Syria. Things turn quickly around.

Just some time ago the Russian viewpoint:


To this, from the same cartoonist trying to desperately follow Putin's quick turnarounds in the Middle East:


I think the general public in any country that isn't in the Middle East doesn't care so much about the Kurds and is basically quite ignorant about these people. Likely they will go the way as the government and the local media says to go. The Kurds don't have such a public status like Palestinians under the Israeli occupation has (to the Arab street, for example). Kurds are your Basic go-to proxies in the Middle East. Actually Russians weren't so overtly enthusiastic of the whole adventure into Syria. Remember that Russians are in many ways like Americans, they don't trust their government. But being publicly against Putin has serious consequences. Just like Americans, they aren't excited about Russian soldiers coming back home in body bags.

[Hastur]

Turkey has been considered a European nation for hundreds of years. That is not even debatable. For example, the Ottoman Empire was called the Sick man of Europe, starting sometime in the mid 19th century. To say that Turkey doesn't belong in an European context shows a deep ignorance of European history.

[SuburbanFarmer]

What does them not being European matter, though GCF? They joined NATO in 1952. NATO was created to prevent further Soviet expansion into Europe. Turkey was a rational ally to help achieve that.

You do realize that there's a non-American and non-European NATO member state? Hint: Three members here are from that country.

Yes, and frankly, I'd be quite happy not to end the world over that country.

[C-Mag]

Europeans, what's going on with these 'Ghost Ships' ?

Nearly 3,000 ships shutting off their tracking when entering European waters, sometimes for up to 24 hours

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... g-GPS.html

[SuburbanFarmer]

Turkey has been considered a European nation for hundreds of years. That is not even debatable. For example, the Ottoman Empire was called the Sick man of Europe, starting sometime in the mid 19th century. To say that Turkey doesn't belong in an European context shows a deep ignorance of European history.

This is a joke, right?

The Ottomans were never "European". They were a Middle Eastern/African empire that conquered all they way up to Austria, in the late middle ages. They were invited to the European 'table' as a peacemaking move, not because any part of them was ever European in culture, religion, or even (mostly) geography.

This would be the equivalent of calling Morocco "European" because the moors conquered the southern portion of the Iberian peninsula.

I'm quite well aware of history, and using some inane phrase that you picked up from the WW1 era does not imply a deep knowledge of what the hell you're talking about.

[Speaker to Animals]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_man_of_Europe

[Speaker to Animals]

Europeans, what's going on with these 'Ghost Ships' ?

Nearly 3,000 ships shutting off their tracking when entering European waters, sometimes for up to 24 hours

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... g-GPS.html

Our cousins better wake the fuck up soon.

[BjornP]

You read Russian, right, ssu?

Nope, I don't. Very few Finns do speak/read Russian.

Have to do some work, I'll respond a bit later.

Oh, I misremembered then. Didn't think most Finns spoke Russian, just thought you did. And thanks for your perspective.

This is a joke, right?

The Ottomans were never "European". They were a Middle Eastern/African empire that conquered all they way up to Austria, in the late middle ages. They were invited to the European 'table' as a peacemaking move, not because any part of them was ever European in culture, religion, or even (mostly) geography.

This would be the equivalent of calling Morocco "European" because the moors conquered the southern portion of the Iberian peninsula.

Turks came from Central Asia, not the Middle East or Africa. They just conquered those places. And Osman (the dynastic forefather of the Ottoman dynasty) was simply one of the many chieftains/nobles who carved up a piece of Anatolia for himself when the Seljuks who had invaded three hundred years earlier, collapsed. His descendents just kept on taking land away from Byzantium.

Anyway, if people not coming from Europe yet settle in the European part of Eurasia are not really European, I guess Hungarians aren't European, either? Given how they too came from the Central Asian steppes. Are Turks Europeans? Depends on your definition. For example, Russians generally don't refer to themselves as European, for example, despite most of them living and all of them originating on the Western, European part of their country. For a long time, Turks have identified themselves much more with Western secularism, democracy and civil rights than with dreams of a return to the Ottoman caliphate. Despite your claims, they're are not an "entirely Asian" culture. Not even sure you knew what you meant when you wrote that.