Current US Military

[DBTrek]

Dunno about that.
I see no reason you'd find Hill 937 any more terrible than the Battle of Chosin Reservoir. You have a 17 day fight in some of the most hellish weather ever endured by American troops, almost 6000 US soldiers killed or missing, vs what? Some Grand Ol' Duke of York type shit in Vietnam where we march troops up and down a damn hill and lost 72 people?

C'mon man.

[Smitty-48]

The reason Hill 937 broke the back, is because that was the breaking point, in terms of charging up them damn hills, into a meatgrinder which was as bad as anything any American soldier had ever faced, might as well been Pickett's Charge for all intents and purposes, and yet they broke through, they took the damn hill, Hamburger Hill, and they took it.

And then the army handed it back to the NVA, just like that, fight your way all the way up Cemetery Ridge, and take it, and then you had to just hand it back; that was it, Hill 937, the morale collapsed; "we just ain't gonna do this anymore, and if you try to make us, you're gonna get fragged..."

[DBTrek]

What makes you think that particular mistake was so pivotal?

It's not like the entire Armed forces of America was there to witness it.
It's not like it's the only big mistake the US military ever made.
Why do you think it's so special?

[Smitty-48]

It wasn't a mistake, that was the war, it was a war of attrition, Westmoreland made no mistakes, Westmoreland had it exactly right, Creighton Abrams replaced him, but he never said Westy was wrong, that was the war in a nutshell, what hill you take, when, where, didn't matter, Ia Drang, Dak To, A Shau, there was no mistake, that was the mission, but in the end, the mission failed, the NVA broke the back, they were the better army, because what they knew was; all war is attrition in the end, we can take it, they can't, simple as that, for the win.

And that's how it's been ever since, all war is attrition, America can't take it, there's no fight left for that kind of war, but since the enemy can make it a war of attrition at their leisure, at any time, there's no way for the US Army to win, except for a phony baloney dog n' pony show where they avoid the fight altogether, see; Desert Storm.

[Smitty-48]

See, I don't find it tragic that America lost in Vietnam, I don't like the Le Duan, I don't like the Communist Dictatorship in Ho Chi Minh City, but that's neither here nor there for me, I don't have a dog in that fight, the tragedy for me, is that the American public circle jerks on this patty cake Desert Storm Army because the media declared "victory" where there was none, the phony baloney victory, while at the same time, Americans throw the Vietnam army in the trash, because they lost, but me, I don't care if they lost, they were the best of the best, the best America ever put into the field, they deserve their due, the patty cake army doesn't, I don't care who won, the NVA won, they were better, but I don't like them more than I like the Americans in Vietnam, I like them about the same, they were both good, the NVA was better, but that don't mean the Americans sucked.

The NVA was the best army in the history of the world, the Americans were second best, if you're second best in America, they throw you in the trash, but not me, second best by a cunt hair, is still pretty damn good to me.

It's not like the Americans didn't push the NVA to their limits, best army in the history of the world, and the Americans took them to the wall, the Americans just fell short, got beat by the better man, but there's no actual shame in that, not in a fight like that, where I come from at least.

[DBTrek]

Ah yes, your profound "They threw lives away like it was going out of style = best military evarrr" theory - just as brilliant and captivating as it was the first time you rolled that turd out.
(Of course, they had nowhere else to go, and we certainly had the firepower to kill them all, we simply aren't monsters)
ZZZZzzzzzzzzz

[Smitty-48]

They didn't throw their lives away, they didn't sell their lives cheaply, that's what makes them so great, their lives were precious, just as precious as American lives, Americans dehumanize them because that's what Americans do, but I don't, I know they loved life, but they only had one way to win, there was no other way to win it, but they did what they had to do, to win at all costs, I certainly don't envy them, but considering the relative mismatch, the fact that they could fight, and win, and make what up until that point was the greatest army in the history of the world, into second best?

That's all that matters, they took the belt from the champs, and where I come from, that makes you the champs then.

[DBTrek]

They had nowhere to go, dude.
This is what escapes you.



Easy to "stand your ground" till the end when you have no other ground.
That's not iron will, that's no options.
We killed 440k of them to 58K American deaths.
Could've killed every last one of them, via nukes and WMD, if we pressed for a battle of survival, which we weren't (but they were).

What kind of fool looks at an Army taking 8x the number of casualties as their opponent, and reveres them as #1 in all of history?
They stop teaching math in Canada?
Is it happy hour up north already?

Because nobody is buying what you're selling.
We left, instead of committing genocide.
That's how it ended.
Your #1 army lived because we let it live, and we left.

[Smitty-48]

Whatever, Americans can't face defeat, I get it, and that's your achilles heel, you can never face a defeat like that again, so now the US just has to avoid that fight altogether, which, fair enough, I ain't telling Americans they should fight if they don't have it in them, but claiming you're the champs, when you lost the belt? Whatevs, as Donald Trump would say; Sad.

[StCapps]

If you had dropped the nukes and WMD, you Yanks still wouldn't have won. You're just mad the NVA had a better chin than y'all did, and could take more punches than you could ever dream of throwing and still throw back, while you Yanks couldn't and lost all taste for the fight as a result. They never broke, you did, they win.
/shrugs