War With Communists

[TheReal_ND]

I'd argue that fascism (as a national socialist concept) is inherently anti-Marxist.

National Socialism was a concept unto itself, but while formally Anti-Marxist, it was none the less de facto state run centrally planned dictatorial totalitarian collectivism, what the Nazis rejected about Marxism, was the concept of class struggle, Nazism agreed with Marx as to the problems, and even the solutions, what they rejected though, was that it was a question of class, National Socialism asserts that there are no classes, only races, and class is merely a function of race.

In essence, the Nazis are simply racialized communists rather than classist Communists. Again, the means were the same, it was simply the objective end state which was different.

The Communist Utopia is all races living together in harmony as one class, the Nazi Utopia is all classes living together in harmony as one race.

any examples of this? I'm woefully unfamiliar with the way NatSoc worked. I'm familiar with the Weimar Republic and the Revolution leading to the NDSAP, the wartime command economy and such but it seems like pre War Third Reich is a mystery to me.

Do you think it may have looked different if it weren't for the War? I think the War was a function of the NDSAP really.

[Smitty-48]

any examples of this? I'm woefully unfamiliar with the way NatSoc worked. I'm familiar with the Weimar Republic and the Revolution leading to the NDSAP, the wartime command economy and such but it seems like pre War Third Reich is a mystery to me.

Do you think it may have looked different if it weren't for the War? I think the War was a function of the NDSAP really.

Basically it "worked" exactly the way you want things to work, Nuke, essentially if you get rid of all the races, and just have one unified race, the Nazis didn't say "White" so much as "Germanic", but in your case, the White Race, then everything would work great and everybody would get along and there would be no class war, no inequality, no strife, because there would be no diversity at all, everybody would be white and everybody would be loyal to the white race and nobody would be saying "Gibs, Dindu Nuffin", there would be no need for capitalism, nor democracy, nor even religion. and everything could just be taken care of by the utopian state, cradle to grave, without the system breaking down, yadda, yadda, yadda, happily ever after, thousand year Reich.

[TheReal_ND]

You're making a lot of assumptions about me in that post. You're making a lot of assumptions in general actually.

[Smitty-48]

Merely extrapolating from positions previously asserted by you, and then taking them to their logical conclusions.

If you don't have the courage of your convictions, that's not my problem.

[Smitty-48]

Now, as to your second question, what about the War?

Depends which front you mean, on the Western Front, the Nazis were merely trying to secure their flank before turning to the Eastern Front, the Eastern Front was the genocidal war, which was a necessity, because to the East was the Lebensraum upon and through which the utopian Reich would be built, and in order to effect all classes living together in harmony as one race, the other races then residing on the Lebensraum would have to go, except for those who would be saved as a meial labour force to serve the National Socialist Reich and associated One Race Kumbaya Govenment.

Contrary to popular sentiment, the Third Reich did not actually seek world domination as the Communists did, they merely sought a world unto themselves, a rather large one encompassing Eurasia, none the less and otherwise, they were perfectly content to carry on with peaceful coexistence with the rest of the world, so long as none attempted to get in their way.

[TheReal_ND]

No that's not exactly my question. I meant the form of governance as far as economics and civil rights are concerned. I wonder if things would have looked different in absence of a war time economy and what they even looked like in pre War Third Reich.

[Smitty-48]

No that's not exactly my question. I meant the form of governance as far as economics and civil rights are concerned. I wonder if things would have looked different in absence of a war time economy and what they even looked like in pre War Third Reich.

The Nazis didn't believe in civil rights, that would run contrary to Fuhrerprinzip, and there was no wartime economy at first, the Germany economy was not mobilized for war between 1933 and 1939.

In fact German wartime production didn't even massively mobilize initially, took them some time to ramp it up, doesn't really kick into high gear until 1942.

Bear in mind, Germany was not actually prepared for war in 1939, Hitler was not expecting Britain and France to declare war over Poland, so they were nowhere near wartime mobilization at the outbreak of war.

See, at first, the German's nickname for Hitler was "General Bloodless", because from the Rheinland to the Sudetenland to Czechoslovakia to the Anschluss, Hitler had been able to achieve his objectives nary a shot fired, by simply calling the Anglo-French bluff, and neither Britain nor France had actually mobilized for war.

And Hilter had the Pact of Steel with Stalin, which meant that any declaration of war over Poland would be a declaration of war against both Germany and the Soviet Union, which he felt that Britain and France wanted no part of.

So he was confident he could go to the well again, except, this time he miscalculated as to the Anglo-French resolve, and he got tricked by Stalin, who deliberately held back while the Germans invaded Poland unilaterally, in order to incite a war between Britain, France and Germany, to the Soviet's advantage.

Only after Britain and France declared war, did Stalin then move in, under the auspices of simply securing a chaotic situation on the Soviet frontier, which had been incited by that nefarious fellow Hitler, who the Soviets really had nothing to do with.

[TheReal_ND]

Just wondering about some of the intricacies of how the NDSAP would have operated under best circumstances. We have the autobahn, near 0% unemployment, interest free house loans where having children would knock large portions off until payed for by having kids. See, I think NatSoc gets a bad rap because I look at Weimar Germany and some of the things accomplished by the NDSAP and I can't help but feel a little point of pride that a movement dedicated to its people was able to accomplish so much.

[Speaker to Animals]

You can't really have civil rights when the state subsumes the individual in all contexts.

I think where nukedog seems to differ from a true national socialist is that nukedog conceives of the overarching "thing" as a nebulous racial construct consisting of people of all or mostly European descent -- whereas a national socialist saw the state as the true organism that is a composite of the individuals, and the definition of the state therein is a political manifestation of the racial and ethnic group that shares a common genetic history and culture. Remove the state from that equation, and you kind of get a nukedog, though I am not confident that makes sense for somebody like Richard Spencer. I think Spencer would be pretty happy with subsumed under a racially homogeneous state, though I may be wrong about that.


Most forms of totalitarianism (until very recently with the SJWs) involved a leviathan state that had a life of its own which was considered more important than the individuals that composed it. I doubt many Americans on the right will get behind that notion any time soon.

It's sort of why I think actual national socialists would just destroy the alt-right if they really are allowed to get in there in large numbers to co-opt the name.

It's also why I think one should avoid identifying with these buzzwords as well, so..

[Smitty-48]

Just wondering about some of the intricacies of how the NDSAP would have operated under best circumstances. We have the autobahn, near 0% unemployment, interest free house loans where having children would knock large portions off until payed for by having kids. See, I think NatSoc gets a bad rap because I look at Weimar Germany and some of the things accomplished by the NDSAP and I can't help but feel a little point of pride that a movement dedicated to its people was able to accomplish so much.

Well, to a certain extent I would assert that Scandanavian socialism is kind of like Nazis-lite, it's the Nazis, without the racialization and hypernationalist militarism. The Scandanavians are like the friendly egalitarian peaceable non violent Nazis.