Haven't been around for a while...

[StCapps]

If you're making conclusions about the world based on the opinions and interests of school children, I challenge your conclusions to the taste test against the conclusions I've derived from reading the entrails of disemboweled rodents.

I forecast a positive future, with many a chicken little -the sky is falling- liberals droning on into irrelevancy about the dangers of Russia and literal Hitler.

Still missing the point. The assumption, I think, was my kid would not have known any of this or cared about any of this if I hadn't been a terrible parent and indoctrinated her. I'm explaining how in my area, the kids seemed to have come into a high level of interest and to some conclusions without too much help from adults.

Kids can indoctrinate themselves too. Political correctness exerted via peer pressure, especially in government run schools.

[TheReal_ND]

Welcome back Ooky.

Please, break us out of our bubble. Give us 5 or 10 reasons why we should be marching with you. Please, bring a strong argument. Some things we are going to just see differently. You talk about Tax Returns. Federal Law States that Tax Returns are private. If Trump doesn't not wish to release them, that is his right and we shouldn't hold it against him. The whole innocent until proven guilty thing.

Hi Carlus. I'll have to think about this, it could take some time to get enough free time together to write an 5-10 point well spoken argument against Trump and Trumpism. I certainly wrote many such posts before the election, and I have a lot more to say now. But this first message is just letting you guys know I'm still here, based on what I read yesterday I don't think like you all, a LOT of us don't think like you all, and what it's like on my side.

Regarding the tax returns, we know he's beholden to and in debt with and tied to powerful actors in all sorts of countries important to our foreign diplomacy. But we know almost nothing about the particulars. I agree with the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington that he is ripe for unprecedented conflicts of interest and unconstitutional acceptance of payment for personal gain from foreign leaders, even if he had the best of intentions, which based on his and his family's own comments I don't believe he does. If he had fully divested from his business, which yes, would have cost him a TON of money, then the returns would not be as important. That would have also illuminated some character-based traits about understanding how this job is a public service job that is vastly more important than optimization of his own personal finances. But he set it up this way, and he wants to have his cake and eat it too, all while telling all of us to just trust him. He's given us absolutely no reason to trust him, and a lot of reason to see him as a chronically ethically compromised liar.

It's real in her mind.

[Speaker to Animals]

CNN is a hell of a drug.

[adwinistrator]

Kids can indoctrinate themselves too. Political correctness exerted via peer pressure, especially in government run schools.

Not everything learned in childhood is indoctrination, with a motive to push an ideology that wouldn't naturally be formed by group dynamics.

The formative years of childhood are all about socialization, self-identity, and learning.

If you're surrounded by like-minded peers, you're much more likely to trend in the group's direction.

That's not indoctrination, it's just human socialization.

I didn't want the clothes other kids wore because of commercial marketing (grateful dead tie-die), but because of social norms and group/peer dynamics. That wasn't indoctrination.

[Dand]

I've been marching (every protest I've been to is full of friendly, real -not paid, passionate and PEACEfUL protestors from all walks of life, btw), calling my elected officials regularly, and heavily supporting organizations that I think are critically important right now. Like PP, the NYT and WA post, ACLU, and programs for homeless children.
...
I guess that makes moments like the other day, when my 6-yo was grabbing my butt and I asked her what she was doing, and she said "Don't worry mommy, I'm not doing it in a bad way like Trump", not wholly horrifying. Anyway, still hope you all are well.

This is a sock puppet right? Ooky always seemed pretty reasonable on the DCF... but I can't imagine she explained "grab em by the pussy" to her daughter so the daughter could make Trump jokes later. Also, I can't imagine anyone describing wapo as a "critically important organization". Has to be fake.

Nope, its really me.

I did not set out to teach my daughter about pussy grabbing, but she did come to her father and I with a lot of questions both before and after the election. Its out there, and kids hear stuff and talk to each other too. She came with me to vote and they had a thing for kids to "vote" as well - in our district, those kids voted at something over 90% against Trump. Some of what she asked about has made me feel like crying...so I am very appreciative she's already developing a wicked sense of humor about this and other things, as laughter is absolutely the best medicine.

I do think the Washington Post, among other news media, is critically important right now. We need well-funded investigative journalism as badly as we ever have. I do not agree with those here who consider the NYT and WaPost fake news or irretrievably biased.

It's harsh but this is a key of what's wrong with liberals/progressives. I enjoy using certain outlets for news but I would never deny that Drudge and Breitbart are very biased. Drudge Report is my primary source of news and I understand his biases pretty well after years of reading it. I know what to take with a grain of salt and what to laugh off as an issue where he has a personal axe to grind or a particular fascination that I may not care about. If you don't read WaPo and realize that Bezos and to a lesser extent, the CIA, are the arbiters of their content then you're going to have insufficient salt in your media diet. Meanwhile, progressives insulate themselves in the same type of reporting but lie to themselves about their own biases or are blind when it comes to perceiving them.

Highly relevant article: https://reason.com/archives/2012/04/10/born-this-way/2

Basically, conservatives can at least understand liberals' positions and somewhat accurately predict them while liberals do not have sufficient objectivity or empathy to understand what conservatives believe and cannot predict conservatives' stances/beliefs.

edit to provide an example:

I don't know how we get back to that alliance, but I am here. I do see this government acting like they have a mandate for total, one-sided ideological rule when the executive lost the popular vote by 3 million - second time this has occurred to our side in less than 20 years, by the way, and I can't even imagine that conservatives would have handled that happening to them even once. And gerrymandering means that even when we have more overall votes for the congress, we can't win the majority.

The Electoral College serves a purpose, and it's not to benefit a specific party. I support it and it's how we've held elections for quite some time. There is nothing surprising about the fact that the electoral college decided the election and the popular vote did not. Outrage over the EC is hypocrisy or a total dearth of civics knowledge.

[StCapps]

Kids can indoctrinate themselves too. Political correctness exerted via peer pressure, especially in government run schools.

Not everything learned in childhood is indoctrination, with a motive to push an ideology that wouldn't naturally be formed by group dynamics.

The formative years of childhood are all about socialization, self-identity, and learning.

If you're surrounded by like-minded peers, you're much more likely to trend in the group's direction.

That's not indoctrination, it's just human socialization.

I didn't want the clothes other kids wore because of commercial marketing (grateful dead tie-die), but because of social norms and group/peer dynamics. That wasn't indoctrination.

If you accepted any set of beliefs uncritically, that's indoctrination. Getting peer-pressured into doing or saying something you don't want to do is clearly indoctrination and it's the example I used to point it out. You are making a distinction without a difference, not all human socialization is indoctrination but all indoctrination is human socialization.

/shrugs

[Martin Hash]

Capp's gets it. Indoctrination is subtle. Question everything.

[adwinistrator]

Capp's gets it. Indoctrination is subtle. Question everything.

You've been indoctrinated into thinking that way! Everything you've learned, and everything you think about yourself, from your earliest memories!

The word has no use unless you narrow the scope. It's clearly used while discussing politics to say that people with ill intent are corrupting the youth into having evil political beliefs.

Then you turn around and say, that also, indoctrination is just peer pressure, a normal part of learning in a group dynamic, and that indoctrination happens everywhere for every reason in society...

Two very different meanings of the same word, which do you think is more likely interpretation here?

[Martin Hash]

Why do you have to use a sentence to describe peer-pressure indoctrination? What word do you want to use?

[StCapps]

Capp's gets it. Indoctrination is subtle. Question everything.

You've been indoctrinated into thinking that way! Everything you've learned, and everything you think about yourself, from your earliest memories!

The word has no use unless you narrow the scope. It's clearly used while discussing politics to say that people with ill intent are corrupting the youth into having evil political beliefs.

Then you turn around and say, that also, indoctrination is just peer pressure, a normal part of learning in a group dynamic, and that indoctrination happens everywhere for every reason in society...

Two very different meanings of the same word, which do you think is more likely interpretation here?

I use the dictionary definition, that definition is too broad for you, you want it to be more restricted. Indoctrination has plenty of meaning in a broader context as well as in a narrower context, just because you can't see the meaning in the broader context is not my problem.