Obama's Parting Gifts

[apeman]

Setting aside economic concerns involved with increased population, I'd put my money on western civilization being able to weather all comers, and thrive

What evidence are you relying on to assert this conclusion?

Or is it just that your ideology demands that you believe this?

[Speaker to Animals]

I don't think we will survive it unless we fix immigration and figure out how to reverse what was done over the past fifty years or so.

There are only two groups of people in the world who build these kinds of civilizations: European peoples and East Asians. When we import people from the developing world, and they create their little insular communities, it looks not very different from where they left. We have about a twelfth-generation population of Africans here, for example, and the predominant black communities aren't all that different from what you see in Africa. In communities created by Muslim immigrants, we already see sharia law, honor killings, and mob violence against Christians, Jews, and other folks. The nature of western civilization stems from subtle genetic behavior differences between us and other peoples. You can't change those genetics without consequences to the civilization. China wouldn't work if suddenly half its population were Europeans who don't work well in an autocracy.

This idea that people are just interchangeable cogs in a machine has been shown totally false. You have to willfully cover your eyes and scream la la la la la to ignore it at this point.

[K@th]

My ex is Cuban, from Cuba. Nerd's ex is a Cuban, with parents from Cuba. They left to escape Castro. Once they got here, they didn't start celebrating him. Though just over half are Republican, the rest are Democrat. The D Cubans do not love Casto. Remember, they fled Cuba once Castro took over.

I think more Cubans are Republican than not, but that has more to do with their hate of Mexicans.

South Florida Cubans hate what Obama did, but the Haitians and other demographic groups who have family suffering elsewhere have the opposite reaction.

[Speaker to Animals]

My ex is Cuban, from Cuba. Nerd's ex is a Cuban, with parents from Cuba. They left to escape Castro. Once they got here, they didn't start celebrating him. Though just over half are Republican, the rest are Democrat. The D Cubans do not love Casto. Remember, they fled Cuba once Castro took over.

I think more Cubans are Republican than not, but that has more to do with their hate of Mexicans.

South Florida Cubans hate what Obama did, but the Haitians and other demographic groups who have family suffering elsewhere have the opposite reaction.

I love the Cubans. Grew up around a lot of them. Another interesting factoid: they are European.

[BjornP]

and the predominant black communities aren't all that different from what you see in Africa.

In what way? You expect all of Sub-Saharan Africa to look like a mix between the savannah and the ghetto?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... migration/

(Would have appreciated a more in-depth view of which African countries produced the most educated immigrants - my guess would be Ghana and other West Africans)

Turns out if they're black and from Africa, they are more likely to have a higher education than "native" American blacks. There's this thing called culture... just like having white skin does not mean you as an American have the same culture as me, having black skin does not mean Africans have the same culture, work ethic, or values as American blacks. I've noticed the same thing here, only here it's not the difference between immigrants from Africa and the Carribean, but between those from West and East Africa. We've gotten Somalis two decades ago. Nowadays we get Eritreans (who are just as likely to be Christian as Muslim, fyi). It's the Somalis, though, who have the worst reputation for crime, welfare abuse, not finishing education and unemployment.

From a traditionalist racist POV, as in the old race-biology texts, it should be the Somalis and Eritreans who were the more succesful people, being part of the same linguistic and ethnic group as Arabs and Jews.

..and I'll add the fact that you would have been one of the first to point this out just a few years ago, continues to baffle me to no end. The race-baiting SJW's who believe all white people are oppressors who can't be poor because they are white people and they are not poor (while in their mind all non-white people are oppressed and poor) is the sort of racialized shit-thinking, you would have rejected out of hand not too long ago - and not just because it was aimed against white people, but because you would have pointed out the entire premise of race was wrong. Seriously, where the hell did that guy go?

[Speaker to Animals]

and the predominant black communities aren't all that different from what you see in Africa.

In what way? You expect all of Sub-Saharan Africa to look like a mix between the savannah and the ghetto?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... migration/

(Would have appreciated a more in-depth view of which African countries produced the most educated immigrants - my guess would be Ghana and other West Africans)

Turns out if they're black and from Africa, they are more likely to have a higher education than "native" American blacks. There's this thing called culture... just like having white skin does not mean you as an American have the same culture as me, having black skin does not mean Africans have the same culture, work ethic, or values as American blacks. I've noticed the same thing here, only here it's not the difference between immigrants from Africa and the Carribean, but between those from West and East Africa. We've gotten Somalis two decades ago. Nowadays we get Eritreans (who are just as likely to be Christian as Muslim, fyi). It's the Somalis, though, who have the worst reputation for crime, welfare abuse, not finishing education and unemployment.

From a traditionalist racist POV, as in the old race-biology texts, it should be the Somalis and Eritreans who were the more succesful people, being part of the same linguistic and ethnic group as Arabs and Jews.

..and I'll add the fact that you would have been one of the first to point this out just a few years ago, continues to baffle me to no end. The race-baiting SJW's who believe all white people are oppressors who can't be poor because they are white people and they are not poor (while in their mind all non-white people are oppressed and poor) is the sort of racialized shit-thinking, you would have rejected out of hand not too long ago - and not just because it was aimed against white people, but because you would have pointed out the entire premise of race was wrong. Seriously, where the hell did that guy go?

Are you joking?

<--- America

<--- Africa



Let's be real. There really is not much difference between the black community in our American cities and what you find in Africa, other than the severity of the violence, which we tend to limit somewhat with long prison sentences. These people have been here for many generations. Some of them do well, but most do not. The same can be said of recent immigrant groups from the remainder of the nonwestern world. It's the same thing you see right now in Europe as well. When you import a shit ton of Muslims from North Africa and the Near East, you are going to have all the types of shit you see in those places, including mass rapes, honor killings, terror attacks, and God knows whatever else.

The idea that non-European peoples will necessarily westernize when you let them mass migrate into your nations is manifestly wrong.

[BjornP]

Are you joking?

<--- America

<--- Africa



Let's be real. There really is not much difference between the black community in our American cities and what you find in Africa, other than the severity of the violence, which we tend to limit somewhat with long prison sentences. These people have been here for many generations. Some of them do well, but most do not. The same can be said of recent immigrant groups from the remainder of the nonwestern world. It's the same thing you see right now in Europe as well. When you import a shit ton of Muslims from North Africa and the Near East, you are going to have all the types of shit you see in those placed, including mass rapes, honor killings, terror attacks, and God knows whatever else.

The idea that non-European will necessarily westernize when you let them mass migrate into your nations is manifestly wrong.

Are you?

I'm not talking about Westernizing anyone. Some Africans need Westernizing as much as East Asians do. As for my nation... You don't belong here if you don't accept Danish culture is, and is supposed to be and remain, the dominant culture. Don't give a shit if you're Ethiopian, Morrocan or American, a Papist, Muslim or worshipper of goat spirits. You don't belong in my culture by just being "Western". That's like claiming everybody's welcome to change my country because they're "European". Well fuck that. Your only real mistake is believing that my culture is threatened by 5% of the population, most known for crime and kebab. You don't adopt culture from people you don't respect. Danes don't celebrate Ramadan. Instead, we now celebrate Saint Valentines Day, Halloween and.... most insanely... go crazy on Black Friday - even if we don't celebrate Thanksgiving. And the vast majority of TV and movie programming on TV is American... because you export it so very cheaply. All of that has happened in my lifetime, while growing up, and I'm not even 40. But that's entirely on us. It's not something you do intentionally. It's the same trend of adopting French customs when French was a regional superpower, when the Romans were, when the Chinese were in their part of the world, etc. etc.

But Muslims from the MENA countries... StA? Are you serious? What's there to respect? Culturally, historially people have emulated the customs, culture and fashions of the current superpower - or their courts. Even your progressive liberal SJW's don't see black people and other minorities as people they want to emulate. They see them as pets. As trophies, as something to virtue signal about having saved to others of their own class.

Posting two pictures of criminals somewhere in Africa is as good a demonstration of what culture and the state of civilization is like in Eurasia by posting two pictures from an English and Russian hooligan fight. Hint: It isn't.

The black people that have been with you for the longest, are the slave descendents. As the statistics I just posted, they're doing exceptionally bad compared to the Africans that have immigrated, are very close to the US average rate of higher education.

Also, I know you haven't kept up, but the immigrant wave is not a thing anymore. Merkel has declared that the Syrian refugees they got, must return to Syria once the war is over. Most of those who fled ISIS in Iraq are already returning. This is not going to be like Yugoslavia, where we accepted over a million across Europe.

Anyway.... in case you are unaware of religion in Africa:



So... in terms of "race"... black Africans (as opposed to Arabs) are more like to be Christian.

[Speaker to Animals]

You are not responding to what I wrote.

You cannot westernize most of these people in a single generation as if this is just a matter of social or cultural programming. This is genetic behavior. This fact is manifest across the western world now. Other people do not integrate well into our society as a whole. We can sort of get by with immigration from East Asia, since they are the other group who has a similar set of genetic adaptations, but even there, their adaptations are very different. They don't have a similar civilization for the same reasons.

Western civilization is a product of genetic behavior of European peoples. It's not all cut-and-dry, and the borders are fuzzy I admit, but the things you take for granted in a high-trust, high-technology civilization have a lot to do with some of the alleles you inherited from your parents.

African civilization, such as it is, has certain characteristics that one can readily see on the streets of Chicago as easily as in the Congo. They are a tribal people. They readily form up into tribes (here we call them gangs). They resolve differences with violence rather than negotiation whenever possible. It's not all of them. And I suspect over time those traits will change as they adapt to living in a western civilization. But that takes many, many generations. That's something America already has to deal with because we brought this on ourselves. There exists no reason in the world to repeat that with further immigration from the non-developed world.

[Speaker to Animals]

I would also add that the left makes that adaptation nearly impossible with their welfare state. The reason we adapted these genetic behaviors and overcame the Malthusian trap was because the people with genetic behavior of what we now think of as a middle class were rewarded with more resources allowing for more children, whereas the people who lacked traits that predisposed them to delayed gratification, saving, and future planning could not produce more children due to lack of food to sustain them.

But now in the west the left rewards the opposite. It throws money to single mothers and the degenerate rejects of the Muslim world who marched across two continents in search of sex with white women and free welfare money. It's very unlikely that you will even see the necessary adaptations occur at all in these populations since you are artificially selecting for the opposite.

[BjornP]

I don't care about "westernizing". The only thing I'd want to do to people who want to live here, is "Danize" them as you should be preoccupied with Americanizing your immigrants. The piss poor argument that we share shit because we're both "Westerners" is the same globalist bullshit the EU federalists are selling. It's one thing to make stupid points about race, StA, hell, you could join in with nuke's fear of Jews, but don't start talking like a damned federalist.

When most people talk of Western civilization, most refer to the humanism of the Renaissance and the "liberty values" of the Enlightenment. That's exclusively Western Europe, Catholicism and Protestantism. Not a fuck to do with white skin, given how pretty much none of the Orthodox world experienced either. Russia got a tiny dose of the Enlightenment, but they never had a Reformation, never had a Renaissance, and when they finally - over a century after most of Western Europe did away with their absolute monarchies, started thinking of doing away with it they went in the completely over the edge.

Civilization is the sum of culture and history. There was no religious freedom in the Western European Middle Ages. There was no civilization at all, in most of Western Europe, in fact, untill the Romans started introducing it to the Gauls and Germanics. And while there was writing, it took even longer to arrive in Northern Europe, not to mention Poland and the regions conquered by the Franks.

And you do realize that Africa is bigger than all of Europe and North America combined, right? Of course, there is no "African civilization", there never were. The Indo-Europeans stretch from Portugal to Western India. All of Africa does not constitute just one language family, never mind a common historical conqueror like Rome that civilized or influenced the rest of them.

As for tribes... and that's bad or "uncivilized", how? A tribe is not a gang. A tribe is a tribe. My tribe is called Danes. It's not a gang. You often claim to be Anglo. That's a "gang"?

As for the claim of "warlike Africans". Sometime tried to make that same claim about Europeans not long ago. Somehow usually aimed at Germans, even though they only been a county since 1870 and that most European wars were started by the French. Russia resolved their border dispute with Ukraine with war. Neither I, nor hopefully yourself, is going to claim that they don't have civilization?

When I grew up in the 90's, we would get these ads, both on TV and in the mailbox with a picture of a starving, bloated African child and a caption along the lines of: "Save this child or millions will die". There was so many of those ads and it became a stable to show Africa as a complete failed "state"... as if the second-largest continent was a state. Like many other Danes, I started to believe that all of Africa was like those ads.... or like those movies or those TV series. Painting people as weak, helpless... is a great way to make money off of charitable suckers. Especially if you just use stock photos from "generic African village", or "generic starving African kid", every time you want to peddle the 21st equivalent of letters of indulgence.

Turns out people who stands to gain from keeping people believing other people can't help themselves are full of shit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_o ... conditions

I don't blame you for believing all of Africa is a huge mess a la "Black Hawk Down"'s Mogadishu. That was after all the commonly sold fact, beamed directly into all of our living rooms for decades.