International sports bar

[Ex-California]

You are not even responding to what people argue here.

Just like every time anyone who is against "drugs in sports" gets into these arguments. No nuance, only pure and clean athletes like Rocky vs. steroid-fueled, computer trained Ivan Drogos.

If we wanted to go SJW on it we could say there is an anti-Eastern bias since its those big bad Eastern Communist countries making their women into men with steroids vs the angelic amateurs from the west who are just trying harder

Some drugs are allowed some are not, it's pretty simple. Why do you guys have to bring SJW into every single debate? It's like you have nothing else to say.
Sports should be about talent and fitness and sometimes a bit of luck, not who can get the most performance enhancing drugs down their neck.

Then should athletes be forced to eat the exact same diets?

All DSL and I are trying to say is that banned PEDs are not some kind of magic elixir, most are just another way to enhance fitness and promote recovery.

[Ex-California]

I mean.. my experience is limited to LGD-4033, S4, Ostarine, and GW-501516. LGD and S4 were amazing. I added about 12 lbs of muscle on LGD in eight weeks. GW drastically increased my swimming speed and endurance within a few days.

No side effects other than raging libido from LGD and a tiny bit of suppression for a few days after the end of the cycle. GW caused me to lose some fat. Ostarine didn't do much. S4 caused my night vision to get a little crappy while I was on it.

It's retarded to act like these things are a nuclear bomb in sports. It really is.

Did you do all of those at once or could I just get some GW and take it by itself?

[Speaker to Animals]

I can see banning something like cardarine for up to a few weeks before any game or match. Something like that confers definite benefit to performance in the game.

A lot of this stuff that gets banned, though, only helps you build muscle faster or recover from training faster.

The only things that will make you bigger and faster than your genetic potential are steroids, and to maintain muscle mass beyond your genetic potential requires you keep taking steroids all the time. Nor do I see anybody really doing that. It doesn't seem to help athletes to look like a bodybuilder at all.

For that matter.. bodybuilders are not nearly as strong as powerlifters as far as I can tell. They lift solely for hypertrophy and not strength. You can develop quite a lot of strength with the muscles you have through neural adaptations and techniques like Pavel's greasing the groove technique.

But on the other hand, taking a cycle of steroids can heal damage to your ligaments and muscles. It allows athletes to recover from injuries faster.

It's just silly to take this puritanical attitude towards PEDs. It really is. Technically an aspirin is a PED when you think about it. So is caffeine. So is whey protein powder.

[Montegriffo]

Just like every time anyone who is against "drugs in sports" gets into these arguments. No nuance, only pure and clean athletes like Rocky vs. steroid-fueled, computer trained Ivan Drogos.

If we wanted to go SJW on it we could say there is an anti-Eastern bias since its those big bad Eastern Communist countries making their women into men with steroids vs the angelic amateurs from the west who are just trying harder

Some drugs are allowed some are not, it's pretty simple. Why do you guys have to bring SJW into every single debate? It's like you have nothing else to say.
Sports should be about talent and fitness and sometimes a bit of luck, not who can get the most performance enhancing drugs down their neck.

Then should athletes be forced to eat the exact same diets?

All DSL and I are trying to say is that banned PEDs are not some kind of magic elixir, most are just another way to enhance fitness and promote recovery.

You are trying to equate eating good food with taking steroids and other PEDs, that's not a reasonable comparison. The drugs are banned it's that simple, if you take them you are cheating. Cheating is not sporting therefore it must be prohibited.

[Speaker to Animals]

I mean.. my experience is limited to LGD-4033, S4, Ostarine, and GW-501516. LGD and S4 were amazing. I added about 12 lbs of muscle on LGD in eight weeks. GW drastically increased my swimming speed and endurance within a few days.

No side effects other than raging libido from LGD and a tiny bit of suppression for a few days after the end of the cycle. GW caused me to lose some fat. Ostarine didn't do much. S4 caused my night vision to get a little crappy while I was on it.

It's retarded to act like these things are a nuclear bomb in sports. It really is.

Did you do all of those at once or could I just get some GW and take it by itself?

Cycle 1:

LGD 10 mg per day, 8 weeks
Cardarine (GW) 10 mg per day, 8 weeks

Cycle 2:

Ostarine (can't remember the dose, didn't do much)

Cycle 3:

LGD 10 mg per day
S4 25 mg twice per day

Huge gains from that



Cardarine is freaking amazing for increased cardio performance. There is no denying what that can do. I can see why that drug is banned at least within a few weeks of the event. But there are some studies that show it can cause cancer, and the human trials were abandoned. I do not recommend it.

LGD and S4 will cause you to build muscle. Cardarine is a drug that was first pioneered to lower cholesterol. But it was soon learned it causes you to burn fat even when not in a calorie deficit, and then people figured out it confers amazing gains in athletic performance. But then the company researching the chemical found that it might cause cancer and it was abandoned. You can buy that stuff, but I don't recommend it.

S4 causes vision issues while you are on it. When I took it, my night vision was somewhat diminished. That's about it for me, but I have heard other people having worse side effects. I never heard much in the way of bad side effects from LGD other than a little bit of suppression for a few days after you stop taking it. When you first start taking it, your woman is going to be walking funny because your free test is going to shoot through the roof. This drug binds to all your muscle androgen receptors, leaving your normal test as free test. Eventually your brain catches on and reduces the amount of test your nuts produce, so when you stop it, you will want a test booster to jumpstart production again.

[Ex-California]

Its a totally reasonable comparison because its leveling the playing field.

How about technological contributions? Should, lets say swimmers from the US who have their strokes analyzed by computer be banned from doing so because some swimmer from Albania didn't have the same technology available to them?

I get your black/white statement at the end of your post, but the only reason most of these substances are banned are due to puritanical Luddite ideas about modern technology in sports like your ideas

[Ex-California]

Interesting, but I don't need my eyes to get any worse and I definitely don't need cancer. I wonder how much more fat loss gains would be had though from those drugs as opposed to just going back on a very strict keto diet or something like a CKD+fasting. I'd like to get down to 10% BF

I do think that as I'm getting older I"m losing test and need a boost.

[Speaker to Animals]

Interesting, but I don't need my eyes to get any worse and I definitely don't need cancer. I wonder how much more fat loss gains would be had though from those drugs as opposed to just going back on a very strict keto diet or something like a CKD+fasting. I'd like to get down to 10% BF

I do think that as I'm getting older I"m losing test and need a boost.

From cardarine, a lot. But I wouldn't recommend it.

The vision thing is not permanent. It's only temporary and it wasn't that bad for me, really. LGD could potentially be used for a severe calorie deficit without losing muscle, but it will be difficult as that stuff can make you a bit hungrier. I'd strongly recommend a fairly heavy lifting regimen if you use LGD so that your excess calories can go towards building muscle rather than fat.

I gained a lot of muscle when I combined LGD with S4. I am definitely doing that again probably in the summer.

The thing about keto is that if you are doing things that require short bursts of energy, your performance might suffer. I have heard about athletes switching to it and doing fine, but I have my doubts. Carbs are best for energy unless you are talking about steady-state endurance sports like marathon running. But I don't recommend that kind of sport for a man anyway. Just make your carbs vegetables.

[Montegriffo]

Its a totally reasonable comparison because its leveling the playing field.

How about technological contributions? Should, lets say swimmers from the US who have their strokes analyzed by computer be banned from doing so because some swimmer from Albania didn't have the same technology available to them?

I get your black/white statement at the end of your post, but the only reason most of these substances are banned are due to puritanical Luddite ideas about modern technology in sports like your ideas

Again, it's not about level playing fields. There are all sorts of unfair advantages in sports but they cannot necessarily be controlled. Black men run faster, white men swim faster. Living at altitude changes your bloods ability to absorb oxygen. all these things are unfair but they are not against the rules and they don't affect your eyesight or give you cancer. The East German drug cheats have suffered from all kinds of ill effects and many died at a young age. Do you really want children to have to take PEDs to be able to keep up with their competitors or is it better to just ban them and let discipline and natural ability decide who gets the medals?

[Ex-California]

Everything has side effects, including Advil

Where do you draw the line?

And if taking PEDs meant the difference with one of my kids having a professional career in sports or reminding a prole I know what I would recommend them doing.

And both DSL and I have said that the East German drug cheats were an extreme case to where the line should obviously be drawn. However, something to aid in recovery? Take it