Poll: Who Supports the Idea of a White Ethno State?

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

I didn't say there weren't always white supremacists. I am just saying America isn't their 'homeland.' It started as a colony,which is sort of by definition not a homeland, and became a nation defined by constitutional law, which is, again, by definition, not a 'blood and soil' version of a state.

A colony becomes a homeland when the descendents of the colonists/slaves/immigrants no longer share the cultural connection to their ancestral homelands that its current native populations do. Virtually no American have that connection any longer, so your homeland is the US. Virtually none of you are culturally English, Irish, Scottish, German, any sort of Scandinavian, or any sort of Eastern European anymore. Or any sort of African, if you're black. You're all Americans, with your own, distinct American culture(s) unique to your nation.

So, I'd say that your whites do have a homeland in America. Yet, so do the black descendents of slaves, Chinese railroad workers, Hispanics, and any number of other American ethnicities who've been part of your country for several generations.

Well, Nuke clipped out the part of my response to StA that said America could be the homeland for anyone who appreciates enlightenment values and a state founded on them. That pretty much sums up what I think the best part of a uniquely American culture is. Other countries embraced the enlightenment, our country was born of it.

I genuinely beam with pride and patriotism when I discuss American culture and its founding with shit talkers, who I encounter regularly over here in California, so I would never say it isn't a homeland, or that it is lacking culture. But, as a series of colonies, it started with what we've lovingly decided to call 'diversity problems' brought by people with different homelands. Once it became a legitimate nation, it did so on the basis of rule of law, not ethnicity, precisely because it had to square all those diversity problems with running a functioning government.

[Speaker to Animals]

I didn't say there weren't always white supremacists. I am just saying America isn't their 'homeland.' It started as a colony,which is sort of by definition not a homeland, and became a nation defined by constitutional law, which is, again, by definition, not a 'blood and soil' version of a state.

A colony becomes a homeland when the descendents of the colonists/slaves/immigrants no longer share the cultural connection to their ancestral homelands that its current native populations do. Virtually no American have that connection any longer, so your homeland is the US. Virtually none of you are culturally English, Irish, Scottish, German, any sort of Scandinavian, or any sort of Eastern European anymore. Or any sort of African, if you're black. You're all Americans, with your own, distinct American culture(s) unique to your nation.

So, I'd say that your whites do have a homeland in America. Yet, so do the black descendents of slaves, Chinese railroad workers, Hispanics, and any number of other American ethnicities who've been part of your country for several generations.

Well, Nuke clipped out the part of my response to StA that said America could be the homeland for anyone who appreciates enlightenment values and a state founded on them. That pretty much sums up what I think the best part of a uniquely American culture is. Other countries embraced the enlightenment, our country was born of it.

I genuinely beam with pride and patriotism when I discuss American culture and its founding with shit talkers, who I encounter regularly over here in California, so I would never say it isn't a homeland, or that it is lacking culture. But, as a series of colonies, it started with what we've lovingly decided to call 'diversity problems' brought by people with different homelands. Once it became a legitimate nation, it did so on the basis of rule of law, not ethnicity, precisely because it had to square all those diversity problems with running a functioning government.

You are making up an alternative history. The United States was THE white nationalist nation until 1965. We invented it. The kinds of ethno-nationalism you see in Europe are more fine-grained; e.g. German nationalism, Italian nationalism, Polish nationalism, etc. It was here that the generalization of all these things into one whole was accomplished and our entire nation was organized around it.

For most of our history, our immigration policy was organized around the United States being a white nationalist nation. We placed strict quotas on how many nonwhites could immigrate here, not because we "hated" nonwhites, but because we chose not to lose our white majority.

You can despise that history or love it, but don't ignore it and pretend some fantasy mythology is the reality in which we always stood for "enlightenment values no matter your race". That's just total nonsense.

Furthermore, it sort of looks like you really do support the colonization of our nation by foreigners here. If you think all they have to do is "identify" as western, then they should all just come right the fuck on over, then you support the colonization of our home that is happening right now.

Immigration by these people is fine in small numbers where they will NEVER become even a large minority, much less a majority. What we have right now is not immigration. It's literally colonization. We are being colonized and you are defending it as some beautiful example of western civilization. Dude, these people are not western. Mexicans are not western. Great people. I love them to death. But they are not western. They are not us. Their replacing us will only turn this into another Mexico. The Muslims are the most dangerous colonizers who have absolutely no intent to integrate here. Their religion is founded upon the utter destruction of western civilization, so if all you cared about was whether somebody identified as "western", then I find it puzzling why you wouldn't want a Muslim ban immediately.

[Speaker to Animals]

The shibboleth here is a single question:

Do nonwhite immigrants have a right to migrate to America in such numbers that they could replace the American population with their own?


That's what divides people in this thread. I am saying FUCK NO.

[Fife]

Close the borders; close the wars; close the schools. That would be a decent start.

https://mises.org/library/open-borders- ... e-property

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

You are making up an alternative history. The United States was THE white nationalist nation until 1965. We invented it. The kinds of ethno-nationalism you see in Europe are more fine-grained; e.g. German nationalism, Italian nationalism, Polish nationalism, etc. It was here that the generalization of all these things into one whole was accomplished and our entire nation was organized around it.

For most of our history, our immigration policy was organized around the United States being a white nationalist nation. We placed strict quotas on how many nonwhites could immigrate here, not because we "hated" nonwhites, but because we chose not to lose our white majority.

You can despise that history or love it, but don't ignore it and pretend some fantasy mythology is the reality in which we always stood for "enlightenment values no matter your race". That's just total nonsense.

Furthermore, it sort of looks like you really do support the colonization of our nation by foreigners here. If you think all they have to do is "identify" as western, then they should all just come right the fuck on over, then you support the colonization of our home that is happening right now.

Immigration by these people is fine in small numbers where they will NEVER become even a large minority, much less a majority. What we have right now is not immigration. It's literally colonization. We are being colonized and you are defending it as some beautiful example of western civilization. Dude, these people are not western. Mexicans are not western. Great people. I love them to death. But they are not western. They are not us. Their replacing us will only turn this into another Mexico. The Muslims are the most dangerous colonizers who have absolutely no intent to integrate here. Their religion is founded upon the utter destruction of western civilization, so if all you cared about was whether somebody identified as "western", then I find it puzzling why you wouldn't want a Muslim ban immediately.

This has been an engaging conversation, but respectfully, don't put fucking words in my mouth.

I have never, and would never use a clumsy, stupid and inaccurate sentence like "enlightenment values no matter your race" in reference to what our founders thought. I am fully aware that the enlightenment was a European phenomenon. I am also fully cognizant of the fact that we historically gave whites preferential treatment. I, however, find kith and kin anywhere enlightenment ideals are embraced. That is the beauty of a nation designed according to principles rather than simple accident; you can separate the values from the shibboleths.

Wandering into the tall grass over defining pre 65 America as 'White Nationalist" or not is pointless, and sounds more like something the unhinged Antifa at a Berkeley shit-flinging contest would say, than a poster on this forum I generally enjoy arguing with.

Fact is, the term Nationalism as we use it would be basically incomprehensible to an 18th century enlightenment thinker.

[Speaker to Animals]

This implies it does not matter who comes here en masse to colonize our home as long as they claim to identify with "enlightenment values":

Well, Nuke clipped out the part of my response to StA that said America could be the homeland for anyone who appreciates enlightenment values and a state founded on them. That pretty much sums up what I think the best part of a uniquely American culture is. Other countries embraced the enlightenment, our country was born of it.

It's a false mythological accounting of our nation's history as well.

[Speaker to Animals]

As far as the little game of pretending like nobody has or can define these terms.. I already provided that: United States in the decades before 1965. That's what I mean. We can have some immigration from nonwhites and nonwestern peoples, but the numbers are so low that they don't register upon our culture.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

This implies it does not matter who comes here en masse to colonize our home as long as they claim to identify with "enlightenment values":

Well, Nuke clipped out the part of my response to StA that said America could be the homeland for anyone who appreciates enlightenment values and a state founded on them. That pretty much sums up what I think the best part of a uniquely American culture is. Other countries embraced the enlightenment, our country was born of it.

It's a false mythological accounting of our nation's history as well.

Alright chief, I didn't want to, but this kind of gets under my skin, so I got high AF and did a quick little back-o-the-napkin textual analysis of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Guess how many times it mentions race or ethnicity? Twice, and in reference to Indians both times. Once in Article I, section 2, and it is in reference to Indians not voting, not because they are Indian, but because they aren't taxed. The second time in Article I, section 8, allowing Congress to regulate trade with Indian tribes as it does foreign nations.

Not even the odious 3/5ths law or Article IV, section 2, that returns laborers to their owners makes reference to race or ethnicity, but divides Persons into 'free' and 'other.'

Interestingly enough, Article I, section 9, says "The migration or importation of such Persons any of the States shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight." Unpleasant as 'importing' people and taxing the import at 10 bucks per head is, they were obviously pretty pumped about early imigration. Still, no reference to race or ethnicity.

Article VI clearly states that all officers, elected and appointed, "shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution," giving primacy to the idea that your duty as an American is to our rule of law, not magical blood.

How again is America a White Nationalist state again? If you still think my accounting of our nation is mythological, do recommend any other, slightly more apocryphal, founding documents we can analyze, and I will try to gin up some more whirlwind for you to reap.

[Hwen Hoshino]

The shibboleth here is a single question:

Do nonwhite immigrants have a right to migrate to America in such numbers that they could replace the American population with their own?


That's what divides people in this thread. I am saying FUCK NO.

If they are willing to be more Murican than the Muricans. Embracing the Consitution, flexiblity, putting truth ahead of dogmas...etc Yes.

[Speaker to Animals]

The shibboleth here is a single question:

Do nonwhite immigrants have a right to migrate to America in such numbers that they could replace the American population with their own?


That's what divides people in this thread. I am saying FUCK NO.

If they are willing to be more Murican than the Muricans. Embracing the Consitution, flexiblity, putting truth ahead of dogmas...etc Yes.

The problem is manifest throughout American history. For instance, when LBJ passed the Fair Housing Act, blacks moved en masse out into the near suburbs. Most of them wanted what those suburbs had and to be what the white residents in the suburbs were. But they killed the near suburbs by just moving in there. This was the origin of white flight.

Just wanting to be something doesn't make you that thing. I might want very much to be accepted in some Latin American community as a member of their society, but the truth is, I will NEVER be accepted as one of them. They can be great people and we can get along just fine, but I am not their people and they are not my people.

The worst part of this is that the Multicult entices nonwhites to attempt this, promising them that they can be just like whites, and lots of people immigrate here, have children here, and plant roots here. But they can never be what they wanted to be. They get disconnected from their own people and this is a the source of a lot angst and existential problems. I criticize the SJWs where they deserve it (which is most of the time), but the nonwhite SJWs are absolutely correct that living in a white society creates a lot of issues for them. You are surrounded by people who are not like you. People with a different shared history from your own, different values, different upbringing, etc.

You could have asked black people a long time ago how this turns out. What we did to the American black population was horrendous. We stole them from their homelands. We robbed them of their language, culture, religion, history, and even their capacity to read and learn. They were a people with a brutally imposed amnesia, transported to a foreign land and, after a time, they were set free to somehow compete with a majority population who still possessed their history, shared values, institutions, culture, and religion.

Black Americans are an example of just how bad this really is. But how long do you think it takes to find examples of Asian Americans complaining about similar problems? At the end of the day, it's fucking weird to be surrounded by people who are not like you. Your human instincts are screaming for you to find your tribe, and yet your social conditioning is telling you "this is fine". You're going to have problems from that. I don't care who you are. That's why nonwhites absolutely need their own racial spaces. There is nothing wrong with it. It's basically a triage for the damage inflicted upon people by the Multicult.

I am making a guess here from your screen name that you are of Asian descent. Do you really believe that I could immigrate to the nation from which your family originates and be accepted as one of them? Say it was Japan for the sake of argument, do you really believe that I could become truly "Japanese"? The fact is that I cannot. I can never be one of your people anymore than you can become one of mine.