North Korea News

[Speaker to Animals]

A German u-boat was a surface vessel that could, for a time, go underwater.

A modern nuclear submarine can stay very deep for a very long time. It's also considerably faster than surface ships.

Not really comparible.

If you are talking modern subs, yes... but don't forget, if we are talking countries like NK, etc... they still are using Diesel and Electric subs, unless they got some dealings with China and got their hands on a nuclear one, but even I don't think China is that stupid.

We are talking about the USN's surface fleet, much of which is arguably within a few decades of obsolescence.

I think carrier groups in particular are a terrible idea. They already can potentially be destroyed by a major power in a real conflict. They are good for projecting power towards the developing world. Against Russia? Nah. Russian subs would eventually pop that cherry.

[SuburbanFarmer]

You really forget your history then... Germany, the wolf-pack... how they ruled the sea before the US and allies used a combination of air and sea tactics to squash them?

People are closed minded when it comes to mixed operations... Obama thought we could destroy ISIS without boots on the ground...

We need to stop thinking so linear... we need to use all forms of military to destroy an enemy, not limit ourselves to just one or two tactics...

Just think of all the battles won throughout history with horse cavalry. We surely can't just leave that weapon out of our arsenal.

You laugh, but why do cowboys use horses to heard cattle instead of jeeps?

There is a reason for everything... and you need to remember, the US still uses Horse Calvary...

1st Calvary Horse Detachment, Fort Hood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Caval ... Detachment

The detachment has primarily public duties functions. It participates in change of command and medal ceremonies, the U.S. presidential inauguration, and represents the 1st Cavalry Division in parades, riding demonstrations, and civic events.[6] In addition to official state and military ceremonies, it has participated in the Rose Parade, Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association rodeos, and U.S. Army recruiting events.[7][8] Finally, a weekly mounted drill demonstrating equestrian vaulting and cavalry tactics, such as sabre charges, is held for the public by the detachment every Thursday morning at Fort Hood.[1]

Yeah, dude. Valuable. Unless those horses cost $10 billion each though, not a concern for me.

[DBTrek]

Keep in mind we've been able to track submarines through their surface wake signatures for the past two decades. There aren't many subs (if any) moving anywhere that we don't or can't have eyes on.

[StCapps]

You can't have a navy of exclusively submarines, for one they cost too much. Surface vessels are far from obsolete just because submarines are the more important arm of decision. Aircraft carriers aren't going obsolete because they aren't as useful part of the naval arsenal as they were in WWII. Comparing the state of the Navy's effectiveness to the state of horse cavalry's effectiveness after WWI is just asinine. A military doesn't become more effective by focusing purely on it's army and air force, and neglecting it's navy.

[heydaralon]

Do we know where all of Russia's nuclear subs are and vice versa? If so, that removes a lot of their utility. This is a perfect Smitty question, because that guy is like a walking subscription to Jane's magazine. He always knows all the stats on weapons, ships and aircraft off the top of his head.

[TheReal_ND]

Oh yeah. Those shits are noisy from what I've heard.

[heydaralon]

Oh yeah. Those shits are noisy from what I've heard.

So we know where all their subs are at any given time? Unless we were always following them how is that possible? It seems like you would need some kind of sonar device that pinged the entire ocean floor all the time. Kind of like that contraption in The Dark Knight that Batman uses to find the Joker.

[TheReal_ND]

We have the oceans wired up for sound via wireless buoys. If they go out of range we generally tail them. From what I heard they listen in to them shouting at each other.

[DBTrek]

You track them by satellite.
Like I said, they leave a distinguishable surface wake signature.

That's what happens when big things move underwater.

So . . . are there ways around it? Yeah. You can move your submarine really, really, slow. You can hope we mistake your submarine's wake for a pod of whales (or intentionally follow a pod of whales to cloak your wake).

But if you're driving your Russian sub along at regular speed through the ocean you're leaving a submarine wake that our satellites are hip to, and we're tracking your ass. ESPECIALLY if you're a submarine we suspect is packing nukes.

[heydaralon]

Jesus. I thought we were being really sneaky with our subs. This bums me out a bit. If there was a nuclear exchange, would Russia and America try to nuke each other's subs or would they be basically out of reach?