Is liberalism doomed?

[doc_loliday]

I'll comment my own perspective on the threat to the (classically) liberal values that have defined Western civilization to a greater and greater extent for several centuries now.

Great analysis Bjorn.

[Speaker to Animals]

The check and balance for ideological excesses of all kinds, is ideally society. Not the State, not laws, but society/community. The notion that a free people will automaticaly throw away their traditions, their values, their faith, their way of life because they are free to choose, is a notion built from an insecurity about one's own society and one's own place in it. Not everything that is legal, is considered good behavior. It's legal to mock the poor and disabled, legal to laugh at children falling down and getting a bloody nose. You'd be a massive asshole and everyone would treat you as such, but your behavior would be legal. The freedom to be a dick, doesn't mean you can act like a dick without consequences.

Well this is exactly what liberalism is up against.
The idea of courts upholding human rights cases against people "discriminating"... is what is angering large sections of society.
Employers feel they have a right to discriminate... and really why shouldn't they hire exactly who they want to hire.
Progressives want to push this ideological agenda and have somehow coloured liberalism with this brush.

I suppose the idea of not "serving" certain kinds of people is a tougher nut to crack.
I don't know too many who want to go back to apartheid...
I suppose this was the first version of "being an asshole" that was made illegal.

Segregation was enforced by the state. The state forced people to not employ or serve certain other groups.

Forcing people to employ or serve people even when they do not want to really is a similar form of tyranny.

The appropriate fix was to remove the state from people's lives. News flash: we all naturally segregate by race.

[DrYouth]

The appropriate fix was to remove the state from people's lives.

Remove the state as in what exactly?
Have no state?

[Speaker to Animals]

The appropriate fix was to remove the state from people's lives.

Remove the state as in what exactly?
Have no state?

In the American context, it was to stop state-enforced segregation. That was the problem.

The narrative now is historically and factually bullshit. Most people did not want to participate in denying black customers to white shops, and vice versa. It was enforced by law.

The fix was to stop using state coercion to force people to not do business with other groups of people.

Instead, we got a law that forced people to do business with people they don't want to do business with.

We exchanged one form of tyranny for another.

How is the state using violence to force you to do business with people you don't want to do business with somehow morally better than the state using violence to force you to not do business with people you want to do business with??

[Speaker to Animals]

One could also point out that the very existence of segregation laws indicated that whites are not naturally inclined to deny services to people based on race in the first place, else there wouldn't have needed to be such laws in the first place to keep white and black establishments exclusive to their white and black populations.

Just looking at it objectively, the fake narrative we are taught by government schools doesn't even make any sense. What business owner wants to lose a significant number of customers?? Anyone? Raise your hand..

[DrYouth]

One could also point out that the very existence of segregation laws indicated that whites are not naturally inclined to deny services to people based on race in the first place, else there wouldn't have needed to be such laws in the first place to keep white and black establishments exclusive to their white and black populations.

Just looking at it objectively, the fake narrative we are taught by government schools doesn't even make any sense. What business owner wants to lose a significant number of customers?? Anyone? Raise your hand..

This is an extremely good point.
Excellent reframe.
I concur.

[Martin Hash]

That was easy.

Denying that racism ever existed definitely takes hutzpah. Money is imaginary, racism isn’t.

[doc_loliday]

This is an extremely good point.
Excellent reframe.
I concur.

Excellent reframe or excellent spin. It's one of the two.

[Fife]

Here's a little quiz. It's an easy one though; if you know the answer to any one of these questions, you have the answer for all of them.

1. What institution enshrined the legal status of chattel slavery in the Americas?

2. What institution enshrined the legal status of chattel slavery in the original U.S. Constitution?

3. What institution enacted fugitive slave laws?

4. What institution handed down what purported to be binding legal precedent that "a negro, whose ancestors were imported into [the U.S.], and sold as slaves", whether enslaved or free, could not be an American citizen and therefore had no standing to sue in federal court; and that the federal government had no power to regulate slavery in the federal territories acquired after the creation of the United States?

5. What institution created a war over control of a central government that killed 600,000 Americans?

6. What institution handed down what purported to be binding legal precedent that upheld the constitutionality of racial segregation laws for public facilities as long as the segregated facilities were equal in quality – a doctrine that came to be known as "separate but equal?"

7. What institution enacted Jim Crow laws all over the U.S.?

8. What institution enacted gun control as a means to subjugate non-whites?

9. What institution interred 100,000+ U.S. citizens in domestic prison camps, only because of their ancestry?

10. What institution sent 58,000 Americans to their deaths in southeast Asia?

11. What institution killed Alfie this week?

We could go on and on, of course.

I implore you all; don't be a useful idiot for the 50% + 1. The dividing line between them and you can shift on your country ass so fast it will make your head swim.

[Ex-California]

BUT THAT INSTITUTION IS GOING TO GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME!