Sweden Capitulated

[Speaker to Animals]

It's not so revered any longer because our civilization is degenerating.

[Xenophon]

Warfare is the progenitor of honour, perhaps the bourgeoisie could be honourable, but within the protected walls of the Burg, it is no longer of critical and mutual interest to them, and as such most are dishonourable by nature, push comes to shove.

Might not be the progenitor, as there are many things and occasions when honour plays a great role besides war.

Of course in war, thing like honour is important.

When I studied in the university I made a short article about the Crimean war in Finland. Then we were the Czars loyal subjects opposing the British and the French and naturally hence not much has been written about it. Now have to say that those times when having the Victorian Royal Navy as your enemy is interesting reading and something that people would now say "Could they really behave so?". Starting from things like honouring the negotiating flag, making first your terms clear and if a solution isn't met, only then you take up arms.

How low we have gone since then, have to say. You see now if you would make a warfilm that would somehow totally accurately portray the events and what people thought as it happened, that film would likely be determined boring, "unrealistic" and "glorifying war" with "shallow, unreal" characters.

Honour is something that's not so revered as before.

It is, just not in public.

[Smitty-48]

Warfare is the progenitor of honour, perhaps the bourgeoisie could be honourable, but within the protected walls of the Burg, it is no longer of critical and mutual interest to them, and as such most are dishonourable by nature, push comes to shove.

Might not be the progenitor, as there are many things and occasions when honour plays a great role besides war.

Not really, mutual interest within human conflict, is the purpose of honour, warfare simply being extremis, but if one world kumbaya and no conflict therein, honour is rendered moot.

Which again, is why, as the world becomes ever more bourgeois, honour is observed less and less, and rather most people just lawyer up these days, because you can't rely on most to fulfill their obligations by honour alone, because, in a bourgeois paradigm, it is no longer of critical nor mutual interest to them, just like Grumpy, their subjective interests trump their interest in upholding an honour code for its own sake.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Warfare is the progenitor of honour, perhaps the bourgeoisie could be honourable, but within the protected walls of the Burg, it is no longer of critical and mutual interest to them, and as such most are dishonourable by nature, push comes to shove.

Might not be the progenitor, as there are many things and occasions when honour plays a great role besides war.

Not really, mutual interest within human conflict, is the purpose of honour, warfare simply being extremis, but if one world kumbaya and no conflict therein, honour is rendered moot.

Which again, is why, as the world becomes ever more bourgeois, honour is observed less and less, and rather most people just lawyer up these days, because you can't rely on most to fulfill their obligations by honour alone, because, in a bourgeois paradigm, it is no longer of critical nor mutual interest to them, just like Grumpy, their subjective interests trump their interest in upholding an honour code for its own sake.

Nay, there's no denying virtue in standing by your obligations. But that's simply not the definition of "honor".

[Smitty-48]

Nay, there's no denying virtue in standing by your obligations. But that's simply not the definition of "honor".

Not to you, because your morality code is subjective and situational and you have no honour, to wit, you'll uphold your obligations to America, unless of course Americans vote the wrong way by your subjective morality, at which point you'll declare that you are going to run to Canada, who knew?

By the way, we might be polite to you therein, but we'd never really trust you, nobody likes a traitor, even if they have only betrayed their own.

[apeman]

Just interrupting to say that this thread is actually good.

[nmoore63]

It actually is regardless to principle in that you dishonor yourself by violating your commitment to the code you adopted. It's that you failed to meet your obligation to your code that brings dishonor. If your code is evil, then the moral issues are a separate matter.

Honor does not require you to wrestle with theological issues. You have some code of conduct you must live by and you do it. That's your duty.

The code you adopted comes with principles.

Yes, but the moral issues are separate issues. An SS officer can be honorable and quite evil at the same time.

We are in agreement.

[Smitty-48]

It's not so revered any longer because our civilization is degenerating.

Not so much degenerating, as no longer having to kill or die for its cause, it is ever more all within the protection of the walls of the Burg, and within that protection, honour is no longer of critical nor mutual interest, subjective bourgeois morality codes and unitary self interest is now the paradigm, except for a tiny minority, who still rely on honour rather than force of law, in that they still may have to operate outside the walls of the Burg, where the force of law does not reach.

[apeman]

I subjective bourgeois morality codes and unitary self interest is now the paradigm, except for a tiny minority, who still rely on honour rather than force of law, in that they still may have to operate outside the walls of the Burg, where the force of law does not reach.

Some of my smaller clients are like this, because small NY contractors do sometimes need to operate outside the walls sometimes, in order to survive.

Really well put.

[Smitty-48]

I subjective bourgeois morality codes and unitary self interest is now the paradigm, except for a tiny minority, who still rely on honour rather than force of law, in that they still may have to operate outside the walls of the Burg, where the force of law does not reach.

Some of my smaller clients are like this, because small NY contractors do sometimes need to operate outside the walls sometimes, in order to survive.

Really well put.

Well I would trust you as a man of honour outside the walls of the Burg, apeman, although not because you're a lawyer, but because you're a Mountain Operator, you wouldn't let me down, I'd bet my life on it.