Why McCain (and Neocon Policy) is Horrible

[The Conservative]

GOP Progressives. That's a new one.

Neocons were mainly disillusioned leftists, who before were quite leftists (that's why the name neo). That's why I really hate them.

Old school conservatives are totally different.

McCain had some neocon advisors when a presidential candidate, that's true, but he wasn't part of the small cabal of neocons that took over the Dubya administration. And likely not a socialist back in his early years... even if he spent much time in North Vietnam.

There's nothing new about it. The neocons invaded the GOP in the 1970s and 1980s. They came from the democratic party. I imagine they will go back to it as well.

They hopped over because their electorates turned red. They will give lip service to whatever their electorate wants, and then cave into the democratic party. I am surprised their racket lasted this long.

+1

I'm not that big on Old School Conservatives either............... Classic Liberalism is the goal, results in personal Liberty

That is what I am personally, Classical Liberal. Today though that's like saying you have the plague... no one wants to touch you.

[C-Mag]

+1

I'm not that big on Old School Conservatives either............... Classic Liberalism is the goal, results in personal Liberty

That is what I am personally, Classical Liberal. Today though that's like saying you have the plague... no one wants to touch you.

It's just becoming known, hasn't had a chance to ferment and spread in the minds of folks. Hell, I didn't know the term 10 years ago.

I was on DCF around the time of the BHO election and during the Palin Paranoia. The Palin Paranoia was an early symptom of what would later become full on Trump Derangement Syndrome. Anyway, folks were saying your a GOPer, a NeoCon or youre a Conservative. I wasn't comfortable with those ideologies and I started searching out what political ideology fit my beliefs. Constitutionalist and Classic Liberal were the closest fits for me. Around 2010 I started embracing Classic Liberalism as my ideology. Over the years few know what it is, in the 6 weeks I've needed to describe it to folks on this site. But Hold Fast, in a Generation everyone will know what it is.

[Ex-California]

This is what I have come to realize that I am too in my recent changes.

On another forum there was a guy who I used to think was a crackpot always going off about being a "Real Liberal" but now I totally get it

[ssu]

I'm not that big on Old School Conservatives either............... Classic Liberalism is the goal, results in personal Liberty

That is what I am personally, Classical Liberal. Today though that's like saying you have the plague... no one wants to touch you.

Interesting,

Well, have to say that when Ron Paul ran for President, I was excited and still consider him one of the true statemen that the US has. Now there is a true classic liberal or libertarian and a politician that stands by his beliefs and ideology, yet surely would respect democracy and the constitution to the uttermost. And what I'm happy about is that Ron Paul never went full aboard (like some libertarians) that Trump would make some difference here.

Here's a great insight made by Ron Paul on how actually neocon Trump policy is, if you scratch the surface:



And although I've been positive about the "Trump-generals", that is basically because the Jared Kushner - Steve Bannon tug of war of a clueless President is so unbelievably bad and detrimental leadership. Of course the problem with the generals is that they basically are implementers, not really those that would set the objective. So yes, the likely thing is that they (Mattis, McMasters, Kelly...) will basically go at the policy with the objective of "let's not have something blow up in our face". That of course makes things quite statist.

[TheReal_ND]

I heard Ron Paul was aided with his campaigns by Russia.

[ssu]

I heard Ron Paul was aided with his campaigns by Russia.

Well, the Russians did aid also JFK, for that matter. Yet I don't think JFK was praising Nikita Khrushchev and going with his agenda. Hence that's the you have a genuine investigation with Mueller. And that's why I'm open to findings one or the other way on the investigation.

Yet interesting point nuke, thanks for it.

Ron Paul did defend Putin during the annexation of Crimea and even accused Washington of propaganda with the MH-17 airline shooting down accident. Now it has been shown to be a Russian BUK missile, btw. And one can find articles like this:

The executive director of RPI and several members of its executive board have long ties to pro-Kremlin outfits, including a public relations shop created to restore Russian President Putin’s global image.

John Laughland, a member of RPI’s (Ron Paul Institute) academic board, serves as director of studies at the Institute of Democracy and Cooperation in Paris, a pro-Kremlin NGO that was founded in consultation with Russian government officials. The IDC was founded as an effort to "repair Russia's damaged image in the US and Europe and at the same time extend the reach and influence of the Government of Russia," according to a U.S. State Department cable published by Wikileaks.

The group’s creation was first announced by Putin in 2007 and it has published reports defending Russia on human rights issues.

Laughland told the Washington Free Beacon that the IDC is funded by Russian businesses and private citizens, but declined to name them. He said he joined the Ron Paul Institute’s board at the request of RPI executive director Daniel McAdams, a former foreign policy aide to Paul. Laughland said the IDC has not contributed money to RPI. The IDC’s New York office told the Free Beacon that it has no formal connection to the Ron Paul Institute, but "sometimes will send them an article" to publish.

Ron Paul’s Foundation for Rational Economics and Education, which oversees the Ron Paul Institute, did not respond to requests for comment. Laughland, McAdams, and RPI academic board member Mark Almond also worked for the now-defunct British Helsinki Human Rights Group, a pro-Kremlin NGO that defended dictators against human rights abuse charges.

see The Ron Paul Institute for Putin’s Priorities

Damn it, nuke!

You're making me see Russian fingers everywhere.

[TheReal_ND]

Implying you needed help

[C-Mag]

I'm not that big on Old School Conservatives either............... Classic Liberalism is the goal, results in personal Liberty

That is what I am personally, Classical Liberal. Today though that's like saying you have the plague... no one wants to touch you.

Interesting,

Well, have to say that when Ron Paul ran for President, I was excited and still consider him one of the true statemen that the US has. Now there is a true classic liberal or libertarian and a politician that stands by his beliefs and ideology, yet surely would respect democracy and the constitution to the uttermost. And what I'm happy about is that Ron Paul never went full aboard (like some libertarians) that Trump would make some difference here.

Here's a great insight made by Ron Paul on how actually neocon Trump policy is, if you scratch the surface:

I had the pleasure of voting for Ron Paul in the past. While Ron had crossover middle ground appeal, the party wouldn't give him a shot, much like Kucinich. Rand is an interesting cat, he might have a shot after Trump. But he doesn't seem to have the crossover ability with the Dems anymore due to their hard left turn.

Trump is a hybrid. He has some Progressive Domestic Policies, but his Foreign Policy is closer to Classic Liberalism than we've had in a long, long time. IMO, Trump was pissed he got talked into that missile strike in Syria by McMaster and Haley. No one was listening to Trumps Classic Liberalism Foreign Policy during the election. I rode Carlin pretty hard for not embracing that.

[Alexander PhiAlipson]

I was on DCF around the time of the BHO election and during the Palin Paranoia. The Palin Paranoia was an early symptom of what would later become full on Trump Derangement Syndrome. Anyway, folks were saying your a GOPer, a NeoCon or youre a Conservative. I wasn't comfortable with those ideologies and I started searching out what political ideology fit my beliefs. Constitutionalist and Classic Liberal were the closest fits for me. Around 2010 I started embracing Classic Liberalism as my ideology. Over the years few know what it is, in the 6 weeks I've needed to describe it to folks on this site. But Hold Fast, in a Generation everyone will know what it is.

I think you and I were virtually the only ones who'd do anything remotely like defend Palin. Many crude remarks were directed my way for merely suggesting that she might not be an utter and complete idiot. The media coverage of her was appalling and so many people just lapped it up. I've never liked McCain though--just another kick it down the road kinda dude like so many whom Dan correctly labeled the duopoly. I sincerely hope their days have come and gone, and that Trump will continue to overturn the tables until there are no more moneychangers in the temple that is Washington.

[C-Mag]

I was on DCF around the time of the BHO election and during the Palin Paranoia. The Palin Paranoia was an early symptom of what would later become full on Trump Derangement Syndrome. Anyway, folks were saying your a GOPer, a NeoCon or youre a Conservative. I wasn't comfortable with those ideologies and I started searching out what political ideology fit my beliefs. Constitutionalist and Classic Liberal were the closest fits for me. Around 2010 I started embracing Classic Liberalism as my ideology. Over the years few know what it is, in the 6 weeks I've needed to describe it to folks on this site. But Hold Fast, in a Generation everyone will know what it is.

I think you and I were virtually the only ones who'd do anything remotely like defend Palin. Many crude remarks were directed my way for merely suggesting that she might not be an utter and complete idiot. The media coverage of her was appalling and so many people just lapped it up. I've never liked McCain though--just another kick it down the road kinda dude like so many whom Dan correctly labeled the duopoly. I sincerely hope their days have come and gone, and that Trump will continue to overturn the tables until there are no more moneychangers in the temple that is Washington.

Good Times, Good Times.

My big point on Palin, was that she's an outsider, she was willing to take on the GOP in her state and get shit done the people wanted done. She was actually representing the people, not a predetermined party platform. Drill Baby Drill. Palin made no bones that the press hated her just because she was an outsider.

Looking back on 2012, Mittens took a dive in the final round. Romney was not even trying in that last debate, the American people wanted a reason to toss out BHO and not get called a racist for doing it and Benghazi was sitting right there. Romney didn't even act on it. It was like Romney was just supposed run, look serious, but don't win.