Nationwide Arrests for Opioid Fraud & Prescription Abuse

[brewster]

. I'm fine with punishing people for stupid shit they do on drugs, or stupid shit they do to get drugs, but imprisoning people for decades because they have drugs is pretty disgusting to me.

I doubt most here would disagree, I want to imprison the shady doctors and drug executives that profit from this, and make treatment available for the addicts.

[heydaralon]

. I'm fine with punishing people for stupid shit they do on drugs, or stupid shit they do to get drugs, but imprisoning people for decades because they have drugs is pretty disgusting to me.

I doubt most here would disagree, I want to imprison the shady doctors and drug executives that profit from this, and make treatment available for the addicts.

lol those shady doctors are just a conduit for addicts to get their fix. If the shady doctors weren't around, the addicts would buy impure street drugs from gang members. That is my point. Addicts are going to be addicted. Thats what they do. The drug problem of society could stop overnight if people stopped wanting drugs. But it won't, because people will always want drugs. To blame Pfizer and some pill mill is missing the forest. Why is buying them in pure medicinal form from a doctor worse than buying dangerous shit that is from a violent gang member? There is not a way to stop people from wanting drugs, so just let them get their fix in the least harmful way.

[Okeefenokee]

That's not really true.

It is true that people can start with a prescription for real pain, but they have that addictive personality and it takes over.

I took narcotics as prescribed for over ten years. When they stopped working, I tapered off. I had physical dependency, but not an addiction. A lot of people don't seem to understand the difference. Physical withdrawal sucks balls, but it's not going to make you run out and rob people for drugs. It just makes you more focused on getting through the process. It's when people have that psychological addiction that shit goes wrong fast.

Also, when you are in pain, and you take the drug as advertised, that feeling of euphoria goes away after a few weeks. It's not really a factor in anything unless you chase by taking more and more pills that you are not supposed to take.

You're also an adult. Teenagers do not possess that level of self control, or awareness.

This is a pretty common topic here in OH - at the heart of the heroin epidemic. It starts almost universally with a legit prescription, then progresses to pill dependency, and a transition to the needle. It's happened to people I know, and it's happening across the country. This is not in question, moral judgements, notwithstanding.

Just on anecdotal experience, I don't agree with you either. I had surgeries and injuries when I was a teen and got a lot of pain pills, and I loved taking them, but when they ran out I didn't have any issues.

But for argument, I'll wait until you present evidence that most addicts start as legitimate users rather than recreational users who do it too long.

[Okeefenokee]

Outside of shady doctor pain pill distributors, most doctors are aware of the addiction potential and will not keep give an opioid script for life cus "muh back hurts".

I don't believe you'll find 1 in 100 doctors that would cut a patient off, complaining of chronic pain. They would probably be liable to a lawsuit of some kind, if they did.

This is just not true. Patients get cut off all the time. Besides you're not only being extremely vague, but you're implying that the patient need only mutter "muh back hurts" to continue getting drugs. This also isn't true. Prescriptions are way down, and the demand has not. Many doctors will not fill refill a script. If the patient continues to complain more than likely they will be sent to a pain specialist. Doctors can actually be liable for overprescribing medication too.

[heydaralon]

That's not really true.

It is true that people can start with a prescription for real pain, but they have that addictive personality and it takes over.

I took narcotics as prescribed for over ten years. When they stopped working, I tapered off. I had physical dependency, but not an addiction. A lot of people don't seem to understand the difference. Physical withdrawal sucks balls, but it's not going to make you run out and rob people for drugs. It just makes you more focused on getting through the process. It's when people have that psychological addiction that shit goes wrong fast.

Also, when you are in pain, and you take the drug as advertised, that feeling of euphoria goes away after a few weeks. It's not really a factor in anything unless you chase by taking more and more pills that you are not supposed to take.

You're also an adult. Teenagers do not possess that level of self control, or awareness.

This is a pretty common topic here in OH - at the heart of the heroin epidemic. It starts almost universally with a legit prescription, then progresses to pill dependency, and a transition to the needle. It's happened to people I know, and it's happening across the country. This is not in question, moral judgements, notwithstanding.

Just on anecdotal experience, I don't agree with you either. I had surgeries and injuries when I was a teen and got a lot of pain pills, and I loved taking them, but when they ran out I didn't have any issues.

But for argument, I'll wait until you present evidence that most addicts start as legitimate users rather than recreational users who do it too long.

GrumpyCatFace:

Didn't you say in an earlier thread that you didn't want the government spying on everyone to stop pedos and terrorists in the name of the children? You said something like (I'm paraphrasing), "I can protect my own children, and there is always a risk in society. The cost in civil liberties is too high." That is a perfectly reasonable point. Now its like you are saying: "I want the government to militantly go after this dangerous thing and violate all sorts of civil liberties because think about those poor children who will get addicted."
I don't get this.

[Okeefenokee]

. I'm fine with punishing people for stupid shit they do on drugs, or stupid shit they do to get drugs, but imprisoning people for decades because they have drugs is pretty disgusting to me.

I doubt most here would disagree, I want to imprison the shady doctors and drug executives that profit from this, and make treatment available for the addicts.

I'd rather just yank their license and fine them. Don't make a ward of them.

[clubgop]

Yeah, the medical system is still woefully behind in tech (along with most other areas). It's sad that we can't seem to get this figured out.

It's a pattern of profitable entities are cutting edge tech and regulatory entities are in the 80's. Not hard to figure why.

Also just about every "solution" or "check" violates HIPPA several ways from Sunday.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I don't get it. So the son didn't make the choice to do the drugs? We should lock people in cages for 30 years for having a week's worth of pills and deny people in pain from getting medicine because your son had no willpower? Hundreds of thousands of people are rotting in prison because someone's son OD'd.

Those kids don't "choose" to get hooked on pills. They're usually prescribed them after some sort of injury, then get addicted. They aren't degenerates.

I never said they were. I'm just tired of this lazy journalism/puritanical hysteria about pain pills. From a harm reduction standpoint, this is literally the best thing possible. Medicinal quality drugs that you know down to the last miligram. Oxy has less hepatoxicity than alcohol. People abuse them, but I could not care less about that. People are going to use drugs. Some people will die. That is life. What I'm not fine with is the government acting like this is the end of the world, and ruthlessly imprisoning people for using chemicals that society doesn't approve of. This is like buckets in a well. They closed a bunch of pill mills in Florida, and the heroin deaths skyrocketed. Everyone acted shocked. This always happens. In Vietnam, the government cracked down on marijuana. The soldiers started using heroin. When the government cracked down on heroin, the price went up, so instead of snorting and smoking they injected it. Amphetamines used to cost pennies in midwest pharmacies. The government outlawed buying it without a scrip. Now there is a meth epidemic, with questionable chemicals and shady people selling it. Are you noticing a pattern?

I do, and I'm well aware of it. However, this is temporary fallout from the change. If we stop over prescribing in the first place (exactly as we did with antibiotics), then the problem won't be there in the first place.

[clubgop]

Outside of shady doctor pain pill distributors, most doctors are aware of the addiction potential and will not keep give an opioid script for life cus "muh back hurts".

I don't believe you'll find 1 in 100 doctors that would cut a patient off, complaining of chronic pain. They would probably be liable to a lawsuit of some kind, if they did.

This is just not true. Patients get cut off all the time. Besides you're not only being extremely vague, but you're implying that the patient need only mutter "muh back hurts" to continue getting drugs. This also isn't true. Prescriptions are way down, and the demand has not. Many doctors will not fill refill a script. If the patient continues to complain more than likely they will be sent to a pain specialist. Doctors can actually be liable for overprescribing medication too.

You are right about this. You work in the industry? Cause you are taking the words out of my mouth.

[heydaralon]

The government:
"Sir we don't want you as a consenting adult to use this chemical that we have arbitrarily banned so we are going to have some brain dead bureaucrat look at all of your most personal medical records. I'm sure you won't find some other way to get fucked up."